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 Post subject: Re: The Halo Section
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:47 pm 
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Reyo, YCobb is talking about videogame art design and not the graphics.

Also, armor customization was in Halo 3, which was very much another Master Chief-centric game. And Character customization is still very much a big deal in that your character is part of the story of Halo 4, just in Spartan Ops is all.

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 Post subject: Re: The Halo Section
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:51 pm 
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Well there we go.

I guess that's what I get for just playing campaign on Halo 3 and not doing anything else.

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 Post subject: Re: The Halo Section
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:59 pm 
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And about the fact that current-gen graphics can let developers do more things and make more things, I think it's important for said developers to remember that quality over quantity is often still the best policy. Otherwise you end up with things like the Scanner helmet, which just looks like they strapped a VCR player to a helmet and called it a day.

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 Post subject: Re: The Halo Section
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:02 pm 
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Ah, I hadn't thought of that. I'd still think that the other helmets, given their general functionalities, would be suitable for such pressure. It doesn't explain the rest of the variant, though - why is there still so much flexible bodysuit exposed? Ideally, there shouldn't be any at all. Anyone wearing that is going to get crushed no matter how well their head is secured.

Also, a thing I forgot to point out - previous games' bodysuits, though exposed, have been hard material. It's all been sliding panels and stuff, not flexible fiber suits. Fiber suits are fine when shielding is involved, but it's nowhere near as practical as a hard casing that still allows movement when fire takes those shields down.

Of note: Dang I actually sort of like the soldier variant. It's still got a lot of bodysuit showing and I'm not a fan of the weird jaw shit going on, but it's nice and chunky looking. It's something you could actually reasonably deploy. Mark IV is nice too, since they kept it bulky.

Not-quite-EDIT: But they didn't have to be simplistic. If you recall some of the promo stuff for Reach, they were able to increase their polygon counts by a huge amount. If you compare the assault rifles between Reach and 3, it's obvious that Reach was much more detailed. The difference is that it was detailed in a realistic manner. Instead of adding slopes and curves to it, they gave it gun parts - a bolt, a canister of gas for pressurization(?), rivets, etc. Same with the armor, especially helmets - Reach added cameras, edges, vents, etc.
Compare:
ImageImage

They did not add any absurd mandibles (Raider, some others), inverted-Y visors (Hazop), Banshee Wings (Raider), or Unicorn horns (Fotus (also note: none of the helmets in previous games looked like Megatron from the recent Transformers movies))

It's possible to improve graphics without resorting to generic, overwrought greeble. I know it's the current trend in gaming, but it was a trend previously only exhibited by Halo's mediocre competition. I just think it's a shame that 343 was handed this historically beautiful series, looked at the tryhard knockoffs, and thought "Yes. We are going to imitate that."

Not-an-Edit-again: Yeah, thanks BTS, that's an important thing I forgot to mention earlier. I'd complain about this stuff if I'd seen it in concept sketches for an N64 game. I'm not complaining that they're high polygon, or even high detail - it's just that the designs blow.

Actual EDIT: Formal apology for cluttering this thread with my opinions. Wow this is a large post.

Another EDIT: Wait what's the point of not having visors. Spartans have specially enhanced eyesight, I'm sure it's more cost effective to just give them glass. It's not even a weak point, glass can be pretty tough and I'm sure the UNSC has access to more than plastic sheets.

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 Post subject: Re: The Halo Section
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:22 pm 
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I think it was more like they looked at that one helmet in Reach - the Gungnir one - and saw that it was pretty popular, and then thought that they should make a bunch of new ones with no visors. And some of the ones with stealth in mind (Infiltrator, CIO) you could say it's because visor reflection could give you away, so that makes some sense. Vanguard looks really frickin' stupid though.

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 Post subject: Re: The Halo Section
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:22 pm 
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YCobb wrote:
Another EDIT: Wait what's the point of not having visors. Spartans have specially enhanced eyesight, I'm sure it's more cost effective to just give them glass. It's not even a weak point, glass can be pretty tough and I'm sure the UNSC has access to more than plastic sheets.

I think he thought you meant visors like a baseball cap? Some helmets (EVA) don't have them and others (Chief's helmet for one) do.

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 Post subject: Re: The Halo Section
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:01 pm 
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bwah, whyyyyy do i hate the binary rifle so much.
Also.
The wierd helmets are explained as having taken intimidation and battlefield presence into account. As for the horn, i dunno, command antenna.
Also.
Anyone up for some Spartan Ops friday?
Gamertag is Blitz Walrus.

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 Post subject: Re: The Halo Section
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:04 pm 
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I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR I LOVE DMR........

Wait, the daily challenge is to kill people with automatic weapons? Fiiiiiiiiiiiiine....

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 Post subject: Re: The Halo Section
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:15 pm 
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Blitz Walrus wrote:
bwah, whyyyyy do i hate the binary rifle so much.

I've gotten a couple of ridiculous sprees with that thing. It's satisfying to use, but daisies can it be OP.
"And you are now data, and you are now data..."

EVA has been a mainstay for me since Halo 3. I really don't know why I'm so attracted to that fishbowl.


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 Post subject: Re: The Halo Section
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:27 am 
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Oh my God, I freaking LOVE exile. I walk in with a quota of 5 turret kills and I leave with 17-18 (one didn't count because it was the tank). The Gauss turret is a freaken BEAST. NONE SHALL TRIFLE WITH ME WHILE I WIELD IT!!

BurntToShreds wrote:
And about the fact that current-gen graphics can let developers do more things and make more things, I think it's important for said developers to remember that quality over quantity is often still the best policy. Otherwise you end up with things like the Scanner helmet, which just looks like they strapped a VCR player to a helmet and called it a day.


Well the thing is that the helmets don't really pose any sort of "quality" so there's no need to balance the two, and given that you might as well have a mass collection to try and appease everyone. You're still going to have the handful of helmets that look like booty, but it's also guaranteed that a lot of them will come out looking badass.

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 Post subject: Re: The Halo Section
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:30 pm 
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I would much rather have a concentrated amount of badass rather than half and half. I understand that art and such is subjective, but there are a bunch of helmets that look flat-out stupid, like the FOTUS with its unicorn horns, Vanguard with its cyclops headlights, the Scanner with the VCR forehead, and the Raider with it's weird fins and mandibles.

I think War Master fills the intimidating role pretty well while still looking like it would perform practically on the battlefield.

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 Post subject: Re: The Halo Section
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:14 pm 
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Yes, art is subjective. You would rather have a concentrated amount of helmets you find badass, until someone comes by and says "Those all look stupid as hell". There being a lot of helmets allows for the greatest amount of people to be compensated, and honestly there's no reason to hold that against 343. Or at least no reason that doesn't look inherently selfish. Just ignore the helmets that look stupid and focus on the ones you like.

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 Post subject: Re: The Halo Section
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:12 pm 
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I just realized something, you guys
343 just took away assault right from under our noses


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 Post subject: Re: The Halo Section
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:40 pm 
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Reyo wrote:
Yes, art is subjective. You would rather have a concentrated amount of helmets you find badass, until someone comes by and says "Those all look stupid as hell". There being a lot of helmets allows for the greatest amount of people to be compensated, and honestly there's no reason to hold that against 343. Or at least no reason that doesn't look inherently selfish. Just ignore the helmets that look stupid and focus on the ones you like.

We're allowed to criticize things we don't like.
Also, if you'll remember, the other half (equal balance!) of my argument was that it's a radical departure from previous Halo games. Borrowing heavily from the aesthetics of mediocre imitators is just a disappointing move from a studio taking up the reigns behind a series that has previous gone in its own direction.

Also "this stuff doesn't even look military yadda yadda yadda."

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 Post subject: Re: The Halo Section
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:28 pm 
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Yes, just like I'm allowed to point out the flaws in your criticisms. 343 needed to sell the game to more than just the handful of us. I'm sure SOMEBODY absolutely loves the VCR helmet. It's highly doubtful, but if he does exist, then he is SUPER excited to be able to get his VCR helmet, and who are we to deny him that...

Also I figured since Halo did go its own direction, that all of those shitty FPS games were just copying Halo. I'm actually a little confused on what it is you feel Halo copied everyone else on. I wanna say it's more the other way around, that they're being consistent and because we have a bunch of shitty FPS to point at and say "NO!" we're finally pointing that finger at the Halo franchise.

As for the cartoonishness of it, yeah I can sorta understand that. I don't see it myself, but then again I'm pop flyin' just to shoot at people with turrets.

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