Syobon wrote:
Quote:
it's just that none of those things make her as bad as or worse than Trump,
I agree with you on that. But your attitude of consistently insulting and demonising the opposing party does nothing to improve the situation. It only serves to further antogonise and rile them up. The thing about Trump's movement is that it's mostly a contrarian movement. As you said, this election wasn't fought on policy (which is a terrible thing of course), a lot of Trump's supporters aren't unified on any particular set of goals. They are just fed up. They are sick of the current political climate and they are sick of the mainstream media's inability to bring unbiased news (although for a lot of them it's more about the news not agreeing with their biases).
In response to this movement, the Democratic party and it's supporters had adapted the same attitude you've displayed here. They only added more oil to the fire by portraying and generalising Trump supporters (and even any one who spoke against Hillary at point) as misogynistic, racist, homophobic,... The harder you push against it, the harder a contrarian movement is going to push back.
I think this is the main reason why the Democrats lost the election.
The reasons people voted for Trump are plentiful. Not everyone who voted for Trump is a racist, bigot, homophobe, sexist piece of shit. However, there were definitely people who ARE those things who voted for Trump as an opportunity to make America a safer place for their opinions. The shift in the last 20 years of liberalism in America has been to be a lot more open with speaking out against problems in America. To a lot of people (myself included), being a bystander to something that isn't right is not an option. You don't let someone yell at an immigrant to get the fuck out of the country. You don't let someone joke about how they'd rape someone. They have the constitutional right to say these things, but they have never had the right for everyone to respect them for what they say and avoid the consequences of their words and actions. You don't scream "Fuck you" at a traffic stop to a cop and expect to not get charged with disorderly conduct as a result.
And I get that people get tired of that, of being penned up and worried their opinion isn't progressive enough or that because they disagree on one thing on a list of 1000, they're shit. 10 years ago I'd probably be defending shit because I'd think "well hold on you're not being fair, not everyone is like that".
And that's part of the problem. It's been the problem for awhile but we've definitely seen it with the #NotAllMen and Black Lives Matter movements. #NotAllMen was a response to the #YesAllWomen movement that came about to express how ubiquitous and near unianimous harassment that women face from men in their lives, whether it's daily catcalls, abusive boyfriends/family members, or whatever the case. The reason #NotAllMen came about was because the men who didn't do these horrible things to women felt lumped in with the assholes who did, and felt they needed to clarify and fight back before everyone assumed they were as bad as the other men. The issue was this front wasn't substantial or informative at all. Looking at the #YesAllWomen tag showed a staggering amount of personal stories showing that, yes, this does happen to almost every woman. The #NotAllMen movement was just there to point out "not all of us are assholes". Without condemning the people who are assholes. Without comforting women that what they went through wasn't right. The important thing was to come out and say "I'm not an asshole and other people aren't either". This blocked discourse on things because anyone who insisted on continuing to post stories in the #YesAllWomen tag had to be reminded to "not generalize men" even if they had not had a positive male force in their life. That despite going through what they did, it was equally bad to call out men in general because it didn't apply to everyone. #NotAllMen is a true statement, but the issue is that no one was saying the opposite, that all men were awful. That wasn't the point of the original tag to begin with so the message is left worthless as a result. The Black Lives Matter tag also hits contention but for the same reasons as #YesAllWomen. The problem is that people take the underlying thesis "Black people are deserving of the right to life", and extrapolate it outwards. Since the movement doesn't mention whites, hispanics, asians, native americans, etc. that those people's lives don't matter? Is it only black lives that matter? And if all lives matter shouldn't the tag be #AllLivesMatter? The issue is that it glazes over what the message is trying to get across. Black people are treated differently and as lesser people in society when their lives have as much worth as any other person. That doesn't mean that other lives aren't devalued and are in need on valuation, but it was a way to band together against what people felt were senseless killings of black men and women. However, the big point of contention, to this day, is that it doesn't mention other people. And for that sole reason people will brush off the movement like they do feminism. If it isn't for everyone it's not worth paying attention to because they much be the mirror image of what they're fighting against: exclusionary assholes.
The point in all of this though is that people feel involuntarily indignant when points are brought up. Saying that among Trump's supporters are racists, bigots, homophobes, sexists and the like causes other people to go "well hang on, not ALL of his supporters are these things, that's generalizing and demonizing people". The point isn't that everyone is, and I wouldn't even say "X% of them are these things". There is no standard to measure how many of Trump's supporters are in these categories. But that doesn't mean I shouldn't speak out against the people who do and continue to say that their opinions are not right and not representative of the kind of America that I want, or that other people can't do the same. This is a #NotAllMen moment, where people feel personally lumped in with a group because they have commonality with said group (only instead of the common trait being "existing as a man", the common trait is "existing as a Trump supporter/voter"). I still disagree with Trump supporters on a fundamental level, but I do not insist that they are all these horrible things. But until people step aside and say "I hate this stuff too, and I don't like that people are saying it", the actual problem members of the group will have someone to hide behind and defend them.
So for that, I do disagree that this is an issue that needs to be addressed and it's an issue that liberals have been trying to address. I definitely know it's not popular because it makes people feel attacked even if it doesn't apply to them, but the alternative is not speaking out and allowing the actual dangerous people to think it is okay and normal behavior to go out and hurt people with these opinions, remarks, and actions. And that should never be okay or normal.
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