AWKWARD ZOMBIE

As far as I can tell, Poise is doing bodaciously nothing to affect how you take attacks as things are. Weapons with hyper armor on specific attacks have those armor frames whether you're decked out in the highest grade of poised armor or wearing nothing at all.

Having just tested it myself, using my really low frames (which halves game speed (so I know I'm not timing it wrong)), the hyper armor seems to be completely reliant on the weapon itself rather than any value gained from armor.

Phantom-type mobs work much differently from all the other mobs, from my experience, where they also take the exact same kind of stagger as players while disregarding their own armor. Non-player-type mobs seems to have slightly more traditional poise even though they visibly flinch from attacks.


I also went ahead and found a couple of videos covering the subject since I don't expect my word alone to be any good for an argument.

Having just tested it myself, using my really low frames (which halves game speed (so I know I'm not timing it wrong)), the hyper armor seems to be completely reliant on the weapon itself rather than any value gained from armor.

Phantom-type mobs work much differently from all the other mobs, from my experience, where they also take the exact same kind of stagger as players while disregarding their own armor. Non-player-type mobs seems to have slightly more traditional poise even though they visibly flinch from attacks.[/quote]

once again, this is how DS2 worked. weapons have to break the poise limit on the attack. weapons with slower attacks are gonna not only have a longer window, but have more inherent poise. your fuckin' straight sword is gonna get you staggered because it dosen't have great hyper armor frames and it's not getting a lot of poise advantage. enemies in DS2 had more traditional poise as well.



so first off, the first video is ignoring a few important points, that being how well enemies break poise. anything with range, at least in my experience, does the most stun and poise damage in the game. stupid? yes. a bug? no. secondly, once again, weapons have more poise and more hyper armor frames when they get slower. you're not gonna get a lot of poise use out of a straight sword. it didn't happen in DS2, it's not gonna happen now.

the second video the guy is an idiot and doesn't realize that the wolf ring grants a percentage bonus. The thing shows more poise before he equips an item because it's not calculating the total poise after it's equipped, it's just adding it on to the number he currently has. which probably is a bug, but it doesn't mean poise is bugged, just the menu screen.

secondly, he's confused that the caestus weapon art is doing exactly what it's supposed to do, which is block and prevent a flinch. it's not increasing your poise stat directly, it's giving you an "attack" with massive hyper armor timing and a damage reduction. bad writing? maybe, if you're really looking to see how much poise it increases when it's technically not increasing your poise stat directly. a bug, or something missed? no.

bodaciously this exact same argument was made with DS2. everyone thought poise was broken. thought it sucked. thought something was wrong.

there wasn't anything wrong, it was just different, and it was different intentionally.

another thing is you said was they "forgot to enable player poise when porting the engine"

which those videos actually directly contradict. nothing in bloodborne had any hyper armor. there was no poise. poise did not exist in any form. the fact that weapons in DS3 have hyper armor means poise has been implemented but works like in DS2.

so, to conclude

not a bug, heard it all before, it's how the game works atm, might be changed, but not a bug

Not sure if I'm understanding this correctly, so poise is only dependent on your weapon, not your armor?

So does that mean the Poise stat on armour is completely useless?

what it means if every swing of a weapon has a certain number of hyper armor frames, and a certain poise limit, based on your poise
if you're hit during the hyper armor, you're not gonna stop swinging. if you're hit during the poise boost from the swing, you might stop if your poise isn't enough
so if you're wearing no armor, and swing a weapon with heavy hyper armor, the hyper armor is just not gonna be there.
stack the poise though, and your swings aren't gonna be interrupted by weak poise attacks, and a solid chunk of it isn't gonna matter.

the farron GS is a good example of how poise works, because it has a ton of hyper armor in a long attack, with a clear period of when it begins and ends. if you do the dual-wield L1, your jump forward and stab a dagger into the ground. during that period, you can be knocked out of the attack if your poise is broken. however, after you've stabbed the dagger in and start spinning, you're in hyper armor. with the farron GS in particular, the hyper armor frames are so long naturally that even if you have no poise, you're gonna be able to tank damage for a decent period.

with something like a straight sword, the hyper armor frames are MUCH LESS because it swings so fast. so it's not super noticeable.

basically it means the same thing it meant in DS2, slow weapons benefit from poise, fast ones basically do not.

the issue currently is less that poise doesn't work, and more that everything breaks poise really easily.

There's really no reason to be so hostile. I had just become aware of the whole thing and hadn't seen any discussion here.

I went ahead and compared a bunch of PvP videos between 2 and 3, and I can say with confidence that Poise in 2 doesn't function like it does in 3. From what I've seen, you can poise through attacks well before actually taking a swing in 2 (even taking a full hit while just strafing and continuing the stride), but you're interrupted and staggered on the vast majority of weapons if you so much as get scratched at any moment before the swing formally goes out.
Yeah, Poise in 2 wasn't Dark Souls 1 Poise, but it still had passive effects.

Now, I generally never use anything that isn't a (non-ultra) great sword, so I haven't been touching straight swords aside from when I went from Lothric to Irythil to test different poise values on different weapons. So far from what I can find, there is just no tangible difference between running no poise and running full Lothric armor. I've had moments where I armored through boss attacks during a Bastard Sword R2 while running low poise Fashion Souls sets and a Try Hard Defense set, but those were only after the sword had made contact.

As things are, you just hyper armor through things with no regard to the poise stat itself or you take a chunk of damage from a partial parry with the same results. The only thing your gear does as things are is reduce the damage taken from a hit.

I know that with vordts great hammer I need to be hit -a lot- before my poise breaks in swings

So, having gotten to what I assume to be the Dark Souls III's midpoint, I've been thinking about the battle against Aldrich.

Not long before we reach Anor Londo, Aldrich slimed his way in, munching on hollows, silver knights, and defenseless stunlocking puppies all along the way. Before formally stepping foot into the boss room, Gwyndolin's chamber is wide open with the gender-neutral deity of judgement nowhere to be found. Sunny Anor Londo was all dark and moonlit.

Everything we learn of Aldrich before this point, including from the opening cutscene, leads one to believe we're tracking down a enormous slime blob beast not unlike the dragon slime creatures that dot the land long before this point. However, upon entering the boss room, we're greeted by an eldritch being with the upper torso of a human.

Having reflected on this for a while, I noticed that I recognized the crown on Aldrich's head. After doing some comparisons of the boss up close to some images of Gwyndolin from Dark Souls I, I realized that Aldrich didn't eat him before we got there but we actually stumbled in during the middle of his dinner. He was also somehow controlling the ol' Darkmoon covenant leader's body.

Poise does work in Dark Souls 3, but it's only for very particular attack frames on heavier weapons, and then only once the attack swing has been made, so it's effectively useless on a lot of weapons(meaning, it's more effective to just time the attack correctly). The easiest way to observe poise working is to cast miracles with long cast timers using L2. The effect gives you an insane amount of poise, and you will always succeed in casting your miracle(even with 0 gear poise).

I'm fairly certain that's hyper armor as looking at your stats shows no change to the poise value. I've never been staggered out of any move that has that effect. And I tried to set it up.

Iron Flesh is the only thing that seems to use true poise on players, and you may as well not have armor with that.

once again, that's bodaciously how poise worked in DS2. that is exactly what it was, hyper armor. poise was not "no flinching during anything", it was hyper armor during attacks, most noticeable on extremely slow attacks.

the reason why iron flesh works like it does is because it'd be useless otherwise. imagine if you staggered with iron flesh on. imagine. imagine how useless that would be.

notice anything that raises poise doesn't make you not flinch normally, but makes you not flinch when you attack or are in an animation.

poise = hyper armor, at least for now. may change in the future. nothing actually shows it being broken, however.

I'll just paste this:


Now, I did a bunch of testing with a lot of different setups, and I seemed to have found something.

Some more testing and I can conclude that the talisman skill, Unfaltering Prayer, allows me to tank through a single hit, but it doesn't increase when I switch armor poise from between 0 (nothing worn) to 61.23 (Winged Knight set and Yhorm's Shield). Tested against the most basic hollows by having them mob me with their broken swords, and I tested again with a mob of Lothric knights.

Using Wrath of the Gods, I was able to tank through any one hit until the end of the skill. At the start, after a seconds passed, and right as the skill goes off. If I take a second hit at any point during the use of Unfaltering Prayer, I am instantly staggered, regardless of damage source.

The Perseverance skill prevents stagger regardless of enemy until the animation completes. It made no difference what armor set I wore, just as above. Tested against multiple Basic Hollows and Lothric Knights (remember, I'm intentionally drawing groups together to rapidly attack during animations).

Using Iron Flesh, I was able to receive attacks for the entire duration of the skill at 0 Poise with absolutely nothing equipped, save for the Pyromancy flame. Despite my efforts, I was unable to force myself staggered. Rather than Poise, I believe this to be an inherent effect of Iron Flesh's ability intercepting attacks rather than using the conventional hitstun calculations.


Finally, I tested Ultra Weapon Hyper Armor. Wearing nothing, I was unable to make it halfway through the leap of Smough's Greathammer's Two-Handed R2 when wearing nothing at 0 Poise.
Next, I increased Poise back to just-above sixty using the Greatshield and Armor listed above. Strangely enough, I was able to power through the start of the animation. I decided to start removing gear gradually until it would stop working.

Then I realized something from someone's recent discovery.
Rolling allows you to armor through the last few frames of an attack based on Equip Load percentage. Being a scientist with a theoretical degree in videogame physics, I had to take this data into account. I removed all my non-weapon gear and anything that gave a bonus Poise boost. I then maxed out my equip load to 100% by equipping the above hammer and having several Ultra Greatswords equipped to the secondary weapon slots.

The result: I was able to armor through the first moments of the leap animation at 0 Poise just as I did when I had 61 Poise, breaking 100% Equip Load for both armor tests.


Conclusion: Everything people are relating to poise is a placebo effect. The game grants armor frames based on how heavy you are.

Makes sense.
If you're light enough to roll quickly, you're not gonna be able to resist being knocked back easily.
Whereas if you're so heavy you can't move yourself so quick, the enemies aren't going to be able to either.

So Poise really does do nothing?

Absolutely nothing. I tested all the variables I could think of. Feel free to go try these things yourself.
Just run around with an ultra weapon at super high equip load percentages, with and without armor, and then try it again with absolutely nothing on at all aside from the mainhand weapon.

If that is true why do I stagger people with a crossbow bolt that are in full havel armor, the heaviest armor in the game to my knowledge