AWKWARD ZOMBIE

But

Tolkien hated Hitler

he like said it somewhere I', p. sure

Its not aabout wether you AGREE with extremist theory or not, the idea behind the story was that fantasy fiction taps into that same part of us that is appealed to by racial and political dogma, that we're part of a superior race/society/culture. Its not something you can choose, EVERY human has this fantasy hard wired into them, the question is wether or not you understand how absurd it is.

i think i lost the ability to take you seriously when you started calling tolkien hitler

you ever consider the reason why everyone in the LotR is white is because it's supposed to take place in a super-ancient europe

you know

where most people are white

and there's a loooooot of racial tension between men, elves, and dwarves, with the ultimate moral being that no matter what kind of race you're born into you can become a hero

and that the orcs and shit are bodaciously made to be evil
that
that is their express purpose for creation

it's not the "higher races" putting down the "lower ones"
it's all the races having issues with each other coming together to fight a great evil

sauron could potentially be portrayed as a hitler figure if you really wanted, he tries to create his own army of perfect soldiers, attacks nations for the sake of being a dick, and it takes a lot of time for everyone to finally work together to stop him



did you just call yourself an extremist

you know that's very much not a good thing

right?

What? No, my point is that you dont have to be an extremist or even a racist of any kind to still enjoy the recurring themes you find in fantasy, because its something thats built into everyone, wether youre conscious of it or not. The point isnt that the stories are direct correlations to real life nazi ideology or anything, just that a comparison can be made between the way fantasy races are often written, and the arguments behind racist theory. Wether or not its true can be argued for, but I thought the book brought up an interesting point.

If there are any racist undertones in LotR they're there because it's based on Scandinavian mythology.

It's easy to misunderstand Tolkien's species-centric universe for disguised racism, but you have to keep in mind that in his universe species are fundamentally different. Also, only the orcs are fundamentally evil, they're a race created (most likely by torturing and corrupting elves) to be filled with hate for all things beautiful and pure, the men of the East and such are merely misguided and controlled by Sauron. Being misguided and corrupted by greed has happened to even the highest elven princes in Tolkien. Another thing is that Tolkien is really big on symbolism, the main trend through the history of Middle-Earth is beauty being corrupted or corroded. This is why the oldest race, the elves, is the most beautiful, tallest, strongest etc., but despite this they have to make way for the new age of Men. Now throughout the history of Middle-Earth there were men that made friends with elves and learned a great deal from them, and some of those elf traits rubbed off so to speak. These are the Numenorians and their descendants. So they're better than other men because of this, but they to will eventually disappear from the world too, by the events of LotR there's only Aragorn and the Dunedain left pretty much. But he will then lead Gondor and pass on what he can of the ancient splendor of Numenor. So the lesson, if there is indeed one at all, seems to be that all old glory must eventually give way to the new, and that the new should take it's lessons from the old.

Also as Galaxy said the entire point of the friendship of Gimli and Legolas was to show that people can overcome differences in culture and species to work together and become friends.

I would like to add to what Syo is saying, that people of the South had a valid reason for disliking Gondor and that is what made the susceptible to the guile of Sauron. Not their inherent wickedness.

Tolkien was actually very displeased with his origin of the Orcs because he didn't like anything being inherently bad as it conflicts with the theme he's trying to set. It was one of the things he was still working on when he died.

And to think this conversation stemmed from Narnia. By the way, I finished The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe...starting the next one tomorrow.

so I finally finished Pride and Prejudice

woo I fucking hate that book jesus christ

Whooo Mr. Darcy, oooooooh~

Reading The Three Musketeers

I had no idea what huge dicks they were haha

Who is the bigger dick though? The three who challenge someone that ticked them off or the one who managed to tick off all three enough to receive duel challenges?

I was talking more about, for example, one of them beats his servant if he talks

like, ever

I've been reading a collection of David Goodis novels. They're all so very similar but something about noir style really intrigues me.

I'm going to start writing a short crime fiction story I think.

I finished the third Percy Jackson book

Percy just make out with Annabeth already

Not yet. You've got a ways to go.