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 Post subject: Unsounded
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:10 am 
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Unsounded is a webcomic written and illustrated by the great Ashley Cope! It's story is kinda hard to get into without spoiling, but I will say that the comic features some pretty graphic stuff, and it knows how to tug at the heartstrings.

It's updated three times a week, and sometimes more, because Miss Cope tends to have days where she updates twice

Updates are mondays, wednesdays, and fridays.

I didn't post this in the "other webcomics" thread, because frankly I think the comic deserves some attention.

the first page can be found here, enjoy

http://www.casualvillain.com/Unsounded/ ... 01_01.html

NOTE: the name of the site, it's http://www.casualvillain.com/unsounded, if you type in Unsounded.com you will be sent to some creepy mega-religious site.

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 Post subject: Re: Unsounded
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:46 am 
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My complaint about this comic is that it's a fair number of pages in and there is no sign of an overarching plot yet. I can somewhat understand a bit of setting up but it's got six chapters already and I'm not seeing the point at which I as a reader will get to know what the actual story is and not just be given the politics of it. I'd go so far to say that the gratuitous worldbuilding borders on masturbation.

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 Post subject: Re: Unsounded
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:12 am 
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Madican wrote:
My complaint about this comic is that it's a fair number of pages in and there is no sign of an overarching plot yet. I can somewhat understand a bit of setting up but it's got six chapters already and I'm not seeing the point at which I as a reader will get to know what the actual story is and not just be given the politics of it. I'd go so far to say that the gratuitous worldbuilding borders on masturbation.


it definitely has an overarching plot, it's just somewhat ominous and we don't really know what it is yet

for instance, the reason behind the smugglers seems to be a building suspension, with quite a few disturbing signs of something to come

the worldbuilding has been clever and interesting so far.

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 Post subject: Re: Unsounded
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:34 am 
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Unsounded is boss. End of story.


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 Post subject: Re: Unsounded
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:38 pm 
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Now that I'm more awake I can elaborate a little further. Unsounded commits two particular mortal sins of storytelling: no clear plot and telling but not showing. Already said my piece on the first so this is for the second.

I do not like a story that hurls made-up words at me and doesn't care to explain what the hell they mean for a long time. Things like plat, pymancy, 1st Materials, etc. Even after the first big magic duel I still have no idea what the hell that magic can actually do. It wasn't explained within the story. Then right after it a character somehow deflects that magic by saying his sword is 1st Iron and 1st Gold like those are supposed to mean something to me, the reader. Then there's talk of silver and supposedly it's dark intentions but if I don't know anything about the magic then how the fuck am I supposed to follow along? A brief explanation of the system would have let me know enough about it to enjoy something like that. I would have been, "Oh yeah, that's gonna be a problem," instead of, "And this kind of sword matters why?"

The worldbuilding is huge, I'll give you that, but it's not substantial. History gets thrown at you with nothing to tie it to. Characters flippantly refer to what I assume are important events and figures but nothing is actually expounded on for six fucking chapters. And when that moment comes it's in the form of someone relating a tale, one of the few times the reader gets actual backstory on a character in a substantial form. People talk about Aldishmen, Plats, Cresce, etc like I'm supposed to know who they are beyond a few, precious few, physical characteristics.

I don't care about art. A good story can save bad art, but a bad story cannot save good art. And Unsounded is a bad story that doesn't leave me wondering what will happen next so much as what the fuck is happening constantly.

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 Post subject: Re: Unsounded
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:30 pm 
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Did you read the provided Wiki?


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 Post subject: Re: Unsounded
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:32 pm 
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I rather like a story that doesn't treat you like a child. I can wait for explanations, this looks like it's going to be a long one.

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 Post subject: Re: Unsounded
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:40 pm 
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Nope. That just makes it worse though. The story should be self-contained, the reader should not need to read something additional just to make sense of what should be the primary source. That's the equivalent of handing someone a novel and then saying they need to read the accompanying textbook on the history and politics of that world.

EDIT: That is the furthest from the truth Exeres. Being given information is not "being treated like a child" it is being given the means to actually enjoy the story. It is allowing the reader to immerse themselves without constantly being yanked back out of it by a nonsense term it refuses to define. The instant the reader realizes they are reading a story and are missing pieces then the writer has utterly failed their one task. Fantasy novelists the world over have been able to do it for decades, there is absolutely no excuse for this failure.

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 Post subject: Re: Unsounded
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:44 pm 
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But the missing pieces are what make it realistic. I get so tired of people in stories offering idiotic explanations to people who already know how something works. It can be handled very well, like when Matty explains to Sette how magic works in this universe while his father and Duane are having their duel, but most of the time it's awkward and makes you wonder why they would bother saying something like that - if it weren't for the fact that they have an audience.

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 Post subject: Re: Unsounded
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:04 pm 
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Madican: honestly the points you are trying to make are so invalid that I don't even know what to call them

there is definitely a clear plot, and it is building, if you haven't noticed that, then I'm not sure what to tell you

There is telling, and there is plenty of showing. It's not going to go into a tutorial mode as soon as they bring up a word, because that's stupid. Why would they explain something to people that already know what they're talking about?

It's really not that hard to figure out what the words mean. Pyromany was pretty daisies obvious. First materials are yet to be explained, but from what i've gathered are extremely valuable with special properties.

If you think that worldbuilding and saving explanations for when they are appropriate counts for "bad storytelling", then I think you don't understand how storytelling works. It's not going to baby feed you, you're supposed to be able to deduct things for yourself. If you want a five panel explanation to spoonfeed you details as soon as something occurs, then I suggest you pick up a DC comic from the sixties.

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 Post subject: Re: Unsounded
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:18 pm 
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Without using the Wiki, the comic points out that magic can't stick around forever unless it has been bonded to "First" materials. The wiki gives a fuller explanation. And if an author can't use a wiki, then that invalidates a lot of new media that other writers have been implementing. Are webcomics not allowed to use .gifs? Dead Winter. Are books not allowed glossaries? Wheel of Time. Are movies not allowed sequels? Avengers. Self contained is doable, but not necessary. You seem to approach these things with the mindset of a film student, looking for it to fit a formula that you've been taught. A good formula reference, but not one to be tied down by.


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 Post subject: Re: Unsounded
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:41 pm 
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Omni those aren't even the same things. A GIF is a medium, glossaries tend to hold explanations that were already given in-text for quick reference, and sequels are a continuation of a story. None of those things are like the other.

And Zang, if it has such a clear plot then sum it up in one sentence. Also, I never said tutorial mode, I said weave it into the story. Do not just throw dozens of made-up words at the reader and then not explain any of them at all. Have a character ask about it. The girl for example, she's been shown to not really have any understanding of the outside world and is extremely curious. She doesn't know much about magic, she doesn't know much about history, she doesn't know much about anything. Do not leave the audience in the dark.

You are the one who does not understand how storytelling works Zang. When I write I tend to go by Brandon Sanderson's thoughts on things. Magic for example. In Way of Kings he introduces three separate magic systems in the very first chapter: Surgebinding, Shards, and Soulcasting. He does not just throw information at the reader at the expense of all else, he gives a piece at a time, building upon it until you completely understand each of those systems. What their limitations are, the primary things you can do, and how they affect the world they're set in. I'll look more closely at Shards for this one. In the very first chapter you learn a Shardblade can cut any nonliving material, require ten heartbeats to summon, can only be blocked by Shardplate, etc. You don't learn it all at once though, it's woven into the story. The character remarks on the ten heartbeats to bring forth his weapon, remarks on how before a Shardblade men are little more than phantasms, and how it's going to be difficult to fight this knight because he is armed with Plate and Blade. Unique terms for this world, but it's okay because you get the explanation of what they are without pulling you out of the story.

THAT is proper worldbuilding. The first chapter, the prologue, and the reader has an idea of the world without forsaking the plot. In fact, you learned it all within the plot without even realizing it. To just do worldbuilding, to throw out terms and words without explaining them, expecting people to understand the politics of the world without giving a reason to, that is bad worldbuilding. That's what Unsounded suffers from.

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 Post subject: Re: Unsounded
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:25 pm 
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Okay so can we get some discussion from people who actually like this comic?

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 Post subject: Re: Unsounded
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:31 pm 
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Reading a bit of it, and I like it so far! The zombie guy, (or Galit I think) seems like a total bro.

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 Post subject: Re: Unsounded
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:32 pm 
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I do like it, I just think some things could be done better. I tend to analyze when I want to learn more about something. I only do that when it's something good, not shit. I don't want to break down shit and learn what makes it tick because it won't help me.

Characterization is fantastic for example. Everyone who shows up has a personality of their own and isn't just generic named NPC guy.

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