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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of Korra, because it deserves its own thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:39 pm 
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Shoolis wrote:
I don't really remember Korra abusing her power to get what she wants in the TWO episodes that have been shown.

See: Every single interaction with her and the Anti-Bender crier ever.

And I never said that benders were being oppressive. Korra, however, is being HELLA oppressive. Her reaction to the anti-bender guy is to PROVE HIM RIGHT by attacking her. Granted, Amon is not a good guy by ANY means, but I feel myself rooting for his IDEA at the very least whenever Korra proves him right. Not all benders are a problem, but some, like Korra, ARE. And when the AVATAR, the symbol for peace and balance is a terrible role model, that speaks ill for everyone.

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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of Korra, because it deserves its own thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:59 pm 
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I think you're overlegitimizing the role the crier is playing into the characterization of Korra. The crier is trained to be linguistically able to goad a bender into approaching him aggressively. By using his wordplay, he can anger benders to the point of attacking him, thus proving his point and furthering his cause. Korra is quite the hormonal teenager at this point in the story, and the fact that she is terrified at the fact that she, the Avatar, harbinger of benders everywhere, can lose her bending, is causing quite the emotional turmoil. The fact that the crier can convince you, the viewer, to believe his lies lends to the storytelling of the writers, but you must remember the sole purpose of the resistance is to persecute ALL benders and everyone who supports benders, good or bad, into subservience.

However, I can envision down the road that Amon may be able to persuade some actual benders into believing his stories, either through fear or force, into helping him win the war. I see Amon as a man willing to destroy his entire regime to win this war, and use any means necessary to rule.

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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of Korra, because it deserves its own thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:11 pm 
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That's the thing though, I don't believe a single word that the crier says, because he uses such absolutes. Regardless of that, yes, it is a very legitimate point of characterization of Korra. The crier is a WONDERFUL example of the Avatar's personality. I feel like I'm not pointing this out enough. SHE'S THE AVATAR. Yes, she is in training, but she's supposed to be the BEST of what bending has to offer. She's supposed to represent ALL benders, and she does a TERRIBLE job of it. She has ATTACKED that crier EVERY TIME THEY HAVE AN INTERACTION, which is terrible! Does he deserve it? Perhaps so! The point IS, every time she does do so, it proves the point even worse (or better) than if a regular bender were to do it. Because she's THE AVATAR. It's already a plot point, her behavior. But until it's fixed, until Korra finds SOME sort of control, I find myself unsure of who to root for, because both sides are kinda terrible. At least Amon's idea, at it's (public) core, is a good one. Stop the Oppressive Benders from oppressively bending. Like what THE AVATAR is doing. DID I MENTION SHE'S THE AVATAR?

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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of Korra, because it deserves its own thread
PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:06 pm 
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I really like how this series is going for the gray/gray morality instead of good white/bad black morality that was prominent in the original avatar.

Also, did anyone else notice that when Korra announced that she would join the anti-equalist taskforce, Asami was kind of smiling? Everyone else looked kind of shocked or angry but Asami had this demure little smile on her face.

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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of Korra, because it deserves its own thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:09 am 
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I wonder who will teach her about the chakras.

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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of Korra, because it deserves its own thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:07 pm 
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Taking the obligatory "go benders" side:

I'll get political with this since Amon seems to be playing this out as some petty power struggle with his talk of "martyrdom" in him taking her bending away (seriously, I haven't heard of a plot that thick with political shenanigans than half of the shit you have to do for Ulfric in Skyrim).

At this point, Tenzin is the only one who knows that Korra didn't lose her bending to Amon. In fact, the episode cut out with the two of them pretty much alone after revealing this fact. If Amon is going to play politics, then she needs to as well. Tell the public he ambushed her (which he did), removed her bending, and promote a rally of benders anyway. Meanwhile, she works on the spiritual side of being the Avatar, given that in the original series Aang mastering his spiritual side involved very little bending. Of course, she's going to have to control herself and stop flaunting her bending abilities, the Fire Ferrets are going to have to suffer (but in all seriousness there's an unprising going on that's a bit more stressful than whether or not the city's pro bending team is going to win), but if what Amon said is true, then such an outcry would promote the edge Team Avatar needs to successfully snuff this guy.

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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of Korra, because it deserves its own thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:04 pm 
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Well, unfortunately, that doesn't seem like it's going to happen. The next episode is the tournament, and it looks like Korra's going to be back in full force.

Doesn't mean that couldn't possibly happen in a future episode though. I like that plan.

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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of Korra, because it deserves its own thread
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 8:20 am 
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Reyo wrote:
Taking the obligatory "go benders" side:

I'll get political with this since Amon seems to be playing this out as some petty power struggle with his talk of "martyrdom" in him taking her bending away (seriously, I haven't heard of a plot that thick with political shenanigans than half of the shit you have to do for Ulfric in Skyrim).

At this point, Tenzin is the only one who knows that Korra didn't lose her bending to Amon. In fact, the episode cut out with the two of them pretty much alone after revealing this fact. If Amon is going to play politics, then she needs to as well. Tell the public he ambushed her (which he did), removed her bending, and promote a rally of benders anyway. Meanwhile, she works on the spiritual side of being the Avatar, given that in the original series Aang mastering his spiritual side involved very little bending. Of course, she's going to have to control herself and stop flaunting her bending abilities, the Fire Ferrets are going to have to suffer (but in all seriousness there's an unprising going on that's a bit more stressful than whether or not the city's pro bending team is going to win), but if what Amon said is true, then such an outcry would promote the edge Team Avatar needs to successfully snuff this guy.

Yeah but imagine how unbelievably shit-hitting-fan-like it'd be once everyone finds out she still has her bending. It's inevitable. Things would get much worse off than they would if she just didn't pull that ruse.

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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of Korra, because it deserves its own thread
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 2:58 pm 
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Galaxy Man wrote:
I'll bet that comes seriously into play later.

Would be a kickass ending to the chapter to have Korra lose Republic City to the Anti-Benders because she went out of her way almost to prove them right. The rest of the series is spent with her slowly learning the spiritual side of all the forms of bending, and coming back to bring the city to it's original ideal, a middle-ground for everyone.


I'm actually rooting pretty hard for this theory. if it works out it means we get to see more of the world, and how it's changed. Not to mention the fact that one of my favorite parts about the old series was the traveling and the great locations.

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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of Korra, because it deserves its own thread
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 5:50 pm 
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Fauche wrote:
Reyo wrote:
Taking the obligatory "go benders" side:

I'll get political with this since Amon seems to be playing this out as some petty power struggle with his talk of "martyrdom" in him taking her bending away (seriously, I haven't heard of a plot that thick with political shenanigans than half of the shit you have to do for Ulfric in Skyrim).

At this point, Tenzin is the only one who knows that Korra didn't lose her bending to Amon. In fact, the episode cut out with the two of them pretty much alone after revealing this fact. If Amon is going to play politics, then she needs to as well. Tell the public he ambushed her (which he did), removed her bending, and promote a rally of benders anyway. Meanwhile, she works on the spiritual side of being the Avatar, given that in the original series Aang mastering his spiritual side involved very little bending. Of course, she's going to have to control herself and stop flaunting her bending abilities, the Fire Ferrets are going to have to suffer (but in all seriousness there's an unprising going on that's a bit more stressful than whether or not the city's pro bending team is going to win), but if what Amon said is true, then such an outcry would promote the edge Team Avatar needs to successfully snuff this guy.

Yeah but imagine how unbelievably shit-hitting-fan-like it'd be once everyone finds out she still has her bending. It's inevitable. Things would get much worse off than they would if she just didn't pull that ruse.


It would fit nicely with the conspiracy that Amon's power is not, in fact, permanent, and she could always play the "I'm the avatar, i'm just that awesome" card (that she likes to play anyway), though I see your point. I just like the idea of playing Amon's political tactic against him.

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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of Korra, because it deserves its own thread
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 6:26 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of Korra, because it deserves its own thread
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 1:37 am 
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I nominate Korralition as the new group name

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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of Korra, because it deserves its own thread
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 5:05 am 
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Darkin wrote:
That's the thing though, I don't believe a single word that the crier says, because he uses such absolutes. Regardless of that, yes, it is a very legitimate point of characterization of Korra. The crier is a WONDERFUL example of the Avatar's personality. I feel like I'm not pointing this out enough. SHE'S THE AVATAR. Yes, she is in training, but she's supposed to be the BEST of what bending has to offer. She's supposed to represent ALL benders, and she does a TERRIBLE job of it. She has ATTACKED that crier EVERY TIME THEY HAVE AN INTERACTION, which is terrible! Does he deserve it? Perhaps so! The point IS, every time she does do so, it proves the point even worse (or better) than if a regular bender were to do it. Because she's THE AVATAR. It's already a plot point, her behavior. But until it's fixed, until Korra finds SOME sort of control, I find myself unsure of who to root for, because both sides are kinda terrible. At least Amon's idea, at it's (public) core, is a good one. Stop the Oppressive Benders from oppressively bending. Like what THE AVATAR is doing. DID I MENTION SHE'S THE AVATAR?
I don't see how you can be unsure of whose side you support.

Korra may be the Avatar, but she isn't born one. It's one thing for her to be the vessel for lifetimes of past Avatars; it's another thing to actually become one herself. Key word there? BECOME. You aren't born an Avatar. You don't come out of the womb preaching balance and peace. She has to learn how to master the elements just as much as she has to learn the concepts and philosophies behind being the Avatar.

And right now? Korra is a bull-headed teenage girl that has gone from relative isolation in a barren arctic to a sprawling metropolis full of millions of people who all have their eyes on her. It's one thing for her teachers to preach philosophies, it's another for her to actually have to put them in practice, alone and in the public eye. You saw what happened in the fourth episode when T-bag thrust her into that circle of reporters. Korra's been taught that the Avatar stands for the balance of the world, and that it's her duty to uphold that balance, but she doesn't have a clue how she should do this. She doesn't know politics, she doesn't understand subtleties, and her headstrong personality (which Shoolis put into better words than I ever could) doesn't help.

Korra is still learning how to be the Avatar. She's made mistakes, and she's going to make more. And now on top of that, she's utterly terrified because she finally realizes how enormous this situation between benders and non-benders is, and she is smack-dab center stage in a place she doesn't want to be in - so she's definitely going to make more mistakes down the line.

Amon represents a side that has become increasingly oppressed over the decades, but his solution is one of tyranny as well as oppression. Instead of finding a solution to bring non-benders "up", he decides he wants to tear benders down by changing a fundamental part of their being. This is something they're born with, and he is taking it away. I'd say that's much worse than anything Korra's done up to this point. Most of her actions have been out of being ignorance (the damage to the city in the first episode when she fought the Triad), worry (her worry over Bolin being her primary reason for harassing the crier), and fear (part of why she went with T-bag and captured the chi-blockers). All of these are something she has to learn to overcome. Amon, meanwhile, is driven by a purpose. A goal. That can be stronger than any base emotion.

The writers are doing a fantastic job showing the rights and wrongs of both sides, but in the end Korra will grow and Amon will not. He will continue to fight for his cause without looking back.

Korra's our hero, flaws included.

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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of Korra, because it deserves its own thread
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 4:02 pm 
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Ah, but you see, I never said I was unsure of who the Hero is. That is obviously Korra, she is the primary role. The problem is, however, is that while Amon as a character is definitely worse than Korra, Amon's SIDE is looking good. Another thing to keep in mind is that the fact that Korra doesn't know how to be an Avatar yet doesn't much MATTER. She has the rank of Avatar. Regardless of if she is ready for it, she has the social and political tags that follow. She is expected, almost DEMANDED to bring balance. Is she ready to do that? Obviously not. But that doesn't even matter to the Anti-Benders. Do they care that she hasn't learned all of the nuances of being an Avatar? Not when they are writing the propaganda. Not when the Avatar attacks their criers (Who, I must reiterate, did nothing but talk to Korra when she attacked) and prove their point. That Benders are oppressive D-bags that should be removed.

It's obvious that Korra will grow as a character. It's obvious that Amon will not, at least not to Korra's extent. By the end of the series, I undoubtedly will be rooting for Korra to save the day, wholeheartedly. Until she grows, however, I am unsure of who to root for. Korra is the Hero, obviously, and Amon's revolutionists, the Villain, but this would not be the first example of a Hero that's corrupted or a Villain that's heroic.

The main point I have to get across, that I seem to be unable to do, is this.

The Anti-Benders have a point.

And Korra is proving it.

Will this change? More than likely! Until then, I will sit neutral, because I cannot say without guilt that either side is "Right." Perhaps one is less wrong than the other, but neither is pure enough to be called the "Good" side, unless it's by default.

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 Post subject: Re: The Legend of Korra, because it deserves its own thread
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 4:13 am 
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While the anti-benders have a point, they have a horrible way of enforcing it and I can't imagine all of the people supporting them. Even if benders have a privileged place in society, taking away their bending doesn't promote equality in a positive way. I'm sure the non-bending people who work, are friends with or related to benders and know them as good people don't feel very well about them having a key aspect of themselves taken away. Especially as I'm fairly certain this will have a big impact on their personalities as well.

Taking away someone's bending forcibly is a horrible way of forcing your will on someone else. I think the threat of it alone does some pretty awful things to a person's emotional state, a point that the last episode brought across quite well.

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