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Do you like Anime?
Yes 45%  45%  [ 157 ]
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Sometimes, when i'm in the mood 45%  45%  [ 158 ]
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:21 am 
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BANANA wrote:
animemangavg wrote:
BANANA wrote:
Escargotage wrote:
BANANA wrote:
It was confirmed in Umineko that Bern was her opponent.

And I always thought that Takano=Lambadelta the same way that Rika=Bernkastel. But now that I look at it, Lamba looks more like Satoko.


Hrmm. I always thought Lambda's opponent in Higurashi was [spoiler]Featherine Augustus Aurora since she resembles Hanyuu.[/spoiler] And I don't think Bern started existing as a seperate entity from Rika until after Higurashi ended, I would think if Bern knew she was playing a game with Lambda she'd tell Rika. Though after EP5, I wouldn't put it past Trollkastel to keep the game going to watch Rika suffer.

[spoiler]Ms. AuAu also says she's known Bern for quite a while, which ties into the whole Hanyuu thing. Though she could have also been the game master of the Higurashi games, as well.[/spoiler]


[spoiler]In Umineko, the whole reason Lambda and Bern were competing was because Lambda wanted revenge for losing the game of Higurashi to her. At least, that's what I gathered from what they were saying, and how they acted.

Although you may be right, Featherine could have been the GameMaster; but that doesn't mean that Lambda and Bern couldn't have been competing. I always thought of the GameMaster as the overseer of the game, like a referee. I dunno, correct me if I'm wrong about that.[/spoiler]

And yeah, I can see how you'd think that they're seperate entities. That makes sense, I guess. But it still means that Rika and Takano were vessals/game pieces of their respective Witches. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

Mind if I just join in here?
[spoiler] Yeah, the Game Master seems more of a referee, but I don't know much about EP6 yet besides the outline of the story. [/spoiler]

[spoiler]And in Lambda's diary TIPS it said that she helped Takano, basically confirming that Takano was just a piece.
However, it seemed more like Bern was sort of BORN out of the game since their was so much talk about her and Rika being the same person "yet different". It always looked like Bern was the result of the thousands of years Rika spent trapped. [/spoiler]

Sorry Oracle.

[spoiler]Ah, I never read the TIPS. That explains a lot; but still, how can someone as trollerific as Bern come from someone like Rika?[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Have you ever been stuck in one spot for 1000's of years? Witnessing the stupidity and pointlessness of life. Over and over again. Why is everyone so pop flyin'? What is there to be pop flyin' about? Life is so boring. Why is it all so boring?! Something needs to change. I need to make something change.




Meanwhile the Rika part is just all "Nipaaaaaaaaaah".[/spoiler]

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:23 am 
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[spoiler]Eh, good point.

...Wait, since the beginning, couldn't Bern end the game by bringing back anyone who was killed? Or is she that much of a bitch as to not help Rika?[/spoiler]


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:27 am 
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BANANA wrote:
[spoiler]Eh, good point.

...Wait, since the beginning, couldn't Bern end the game by bringing back anyone who was killed? Or is she that much of a bitch as to not help Rika?[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Bern's power is of 'Miracles'. Or to do something over and over until it occurs, as long as said thing is possible.

Death is a 'certainty'. No matter how much Bern changes Kakera's, she couldn't undo death. And certain rules are also in place on the 'gameboard' preventing her from changing certain events from what I gathered. [/spoiler]

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:35 am 
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[spoiler]But what do the rules say about taking one strand of reality, er, one playthrough, once it's finished with a bad ending, and reviving everyone there AFTER the events transpire and Rika has gone to the next playthrough? As an Endless witch, Bern has the ability to revive the dead; she can do whatever she wants as long as it doesn't affect the game, right?

So what's stopping her?[/spoiler]


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:43 am 
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[spoiler]I don't believe Bern is an endless witch, Beatrice is the only one with that title/ability. Hanyuu was the one pushing the reset button each time in Higurashi. (Which makes sense if Hanyuu was the piece of Featherine) And I don't think any witch has the power to alter gameboards after they've finished. Though, Fredrica Bernkastel in Higurashi came close to that when she prevented Takano's parents from dying at the end of Kai.[/spoiler]

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Last edited by Escargotage on Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:51 am 
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[spoiler]I don't think that she's an Endless Witch either. The one power ever SAID for her was to reset over until she finds the "perfect world".
She had no need to do anything after the bad endings, since she 'lost'.

I think the game between Lambda and Bern was to see if the horrible event was a 'absolute' fact. Bern would spend eternity (or Rika if Bern was born from her) looking if Lambda was right (which being obsessed with her, is exactly what Lambda wants). But if Bern/Rika found even ONE world where everything could be stopped and it WASN'T 100% possible, she would win.[/spoiler]

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:51 am 
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[spoiler]The chain of superiority goes like so:

1. Creators, like Maria.
2. Voyagers, like Bern and Lambda.
3. Endless, like Beatrice.

As Voyagers, Bern and Lambda both can use Endless Magic; the ability to repair what's broken. Reverse death and such. They're on a higher tier than Beatrice.[/spoiler]


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:01 pm 
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[spoiler]Well then, I guess technically Bern could have went back and gave all the Higurashi kakera pop flyin' endings. But iirc, at the end of Higurashi Rei, Rika flat out denied that she was the same person as Bernkastel, which I took to mean she was banishing her from that world.

I also can't see Bern doing that after her personality was revealed in EP5, and when the true purpose of voyagers was revealed: to fuck up whatever kakera they come across to satisfy their boredom. If it wasn't for the fact that Bern didn't exist before Higurashi, I'd think those games were just another EP5 for those two.[/spoiler]

I would've taken a few screenshots to prove my point, but I have no save points during the Court of Illusions and I'm too lazy to skip through all 500 pages of words words words.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:04 pm 
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[spoiler]If she can do that, I don't see the point of why that horribly insane bi- I mean witch would.

Her ONLY goal was to find a world where she could prove to Lambda she was right and win. She gave up hopes on all other worlds that had a bad ending.

She's pure evil basically. Hell, the TIPS showed that she /IS/ the reason Ange and Eva hated each other so much.[/spoiler]

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:12 pm 
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[spoiler]I could've sworn that Rika and Bern were the same person until the end of Higurashi, like how I thought Takano and Lambda were; that's why I thought Bern could just go back and give everyone pop flyin' endings. However, if they're not, then why do they look so much alike? Intentional mindfuck?[/spoiler]


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:20 pm 
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BANANA wrote:
[spoiler]I could've sworn that Rika and Bern were the same person until the end of Higurashi, like how I thought Takano and Lambda were; that's why I thought Bern could just go back and give everyone pop flyin' endings. However, if they're not, then why do they look so much alike? Intentional mindfuck?[/spoiler]


I have two possible theories after looking up a LOT of what other people think:

[spoiler]1. Bern and Rika are two separate people. The only reason Rika and Bern look alike is because Rika is Bern's piece for Higurashi.

2. Bern and Rika are the same person till the end of Higurashi. Bern is the result of Rika's years of lives all together, and her boredom from the torture made her insane and ruthless which is why they tend to consider each other different. Rika is the same in every world, yet Bern is the part that traveled and witnessed every world.[/spoiler]

I tend to lead towards my second theory more.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:36 pm 
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animemangavg wrote:
BANANA wrote:
[spoiler]I could've sworn that Rika and Bern were the same person until the end of Higurashi, like how I thought Takano and Lambda were; that's why I thought Bern could just go back and give everyone pop flyin' endings. However, if they're not, then why do they look so much alike? Intentional mindfuck?[/spoiler]


I have two possible theories after looking up a LOT of what other people think:

[spoiler]1. Bern and Rika are two separate people. The only reason Rika and Bern look alike is because Rika is Bern's piece for Higurashi.

2. Bern and Rika are the same person till the end of Higurashi. Bern is the result of Rika's years of lives all together, and her boredom from the torture made her insane and ruthless which is why they tend to consider each other different. Rika is the same in every world, yet Bern is the part that traveled and witnessed every world.[/spoiler]

I tend to lead towards my second theory more.


Here's my opinion on the matter:

[spoiler]For one, Rika isn't the same every time- they explained that in the second season. Up until Bern/Rika replaces the Rika of that world to try to change what's going to happen, the personalities could be completely different.

At the end of Higurashi, Takano and Lambdadelta, and Rika and Bernkastel, became seperate entities; at least, I think so. They used to be the same person, but now that the game is over, there's no need for Rika or Takano to know magic or things like Lambda and Bern do; I think that it works on the same principle of what happened when Rika/Bern replaces the Rika of that world. Bern and Lambda are the "true" forms of Rika and Takano, and when the game was over Rika and Takano reverted back to their old personalities, with Bern and Takano gone.

What do you think?[/spoiler]


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:41 pm 
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BANANA wrote:
animemangavg wrote:
BANANA wrote:
[spoiler]I could've sworn that Rika and Bern were the same person until the end of Higurashi, like how I thought Takano and Lambda were; that's why I thought Bern could just go back and give everyone pop flyin' endings. However, if they're not, then why do they look so much alike? Intentional mindfuck?[/spoiler]


I have two possible theories after looking up a LOT of what other people think:

[spoiler]1. Bern and Rika are two separate people. The only reason Rika and Bern look alike is because Rika is Bern's piece for Higurashi.

2. Bern and Rika are the same person till the end of Higurashi. Bern is the result of Rika's years of lives all together, and her boredom from the torture made her insane and ruthless which is why they tend to consider each other different. Rika is the same in every world, yet Bern is the part that traveled and witnessed every world.[/spoiler]

I tend to lead towards my second theory more.


Here's my opinion on the matter:

[spoiler]For one, Rika isn't the same every time- they explained that in the second season. Up until Bern/Rika replaces the Rika of that world to try to change what's going to happen, the personalities could be completely different.

At the end of Higurashi, Takano and Lambdadelta, and Rika and Bernkastel, became seperate entities; at least, I think so. They used to be the same person, but now that the game is over, there's no need for Rika or Takano to know magic or things like Lambda and Bern do; I think that it works on the same principle of what happened when Rika/Bern replaces the Rika of that world. Bern and Lambda are the "true" forms of Rika and Takano, and when the game was over Rika and Takano reverted back to their old personalities, with Bern and Takano gone.

What do you think?[/spoiler]

I would agree, however there are two things that MAY disprove at least a portion of it.

[spoiler]When they are changing worlds (Rika/Bern and Hanyuu) Rika/Bern seems completely aware of all the worlds. She always refers back to old worlds she's been too.

And in Lambda's Diary it SEEMED to point that she found Takano as a child and helped her, impressed by her willpower. But it never said it was Takano by name. But if it wasn't, that would mean there is a while 3rd story that we never heard, or more.[/spoiler]

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:56 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:11 pm 
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[spoiler]It was me![/spoiler]

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