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Spin the Wheel of Morality?
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 Post subject: Re: Western Cartoons/Comics
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:42 am 
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sideburn king
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They keep on making movies based on his excellent works. Results vary.

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 Post subject: Re: Western Cartoons/Comics
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:13 pm 
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Another problem is that people refuse to buy stuff that they havent read a thousand times before. Sure, you get the occasional surprise breakaway hit, usually if the writer is famous, but overall, I think that Marvel and DC has completely lost focus, and are just keeping the comics on life support so they have material for their movie franchises which makes such a ridiculous amount of cheddar that comic sales look pathetic in comparison.

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 Post subject: Re: Western Cartoons/Comics
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:54 pm 
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how much is a score
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The comic industry is doing well in every area other than Comics

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 Post subject: Re: Western Cartoons/Comics
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:11 pm 
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Terraem wrote:
They told him they'd have it done by the very talented writers of this time. He asked them why, if they had such talented writers, didn't they have them write entirely new good comics and characters, instead of relying on his.


I find it hilarious that the guy who told them to write entirely new characters had also in the past created League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, a series which consists entirely of new stories with references to existing but public domain characters. The same way the guys behind Before Watchmen are writing new stories for existing characters, albeit they take place before the main Watchmen series.

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 Post subject: Re: Western Cartoons/Comics
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:18 pm 
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Okay, one, it doesnt really apply when the characters have existed for over a century. Two, Watchmen doesnt NEED elaboration, the story has been told.

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 Post subject: Re: Western Cartoons/Comics
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:40 pm 
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It actually does apply. The entire idea is that he's taken existing characters from fiction, and written new stories with them. The same way that DC is taking the existing characters from Watchmen and writing new stories about those characters. Sure, they're prequel stories, but they're still newly written ones. Some of the series in Before Watchmen are actually interesting. Take the Minutemen, for example. They're doing a solid job of fleshing out the story of the original masked crime fighting team. Ozymandias is supposed to be good as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Western Cartoons/Comics
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:03 pm 
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how much is a score
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My primary issue with Before Watchmen is more about the respect shown to the authors. Moore clearly didn't want Before Watchmen to happen, and yet DC went ahead with it anyway because who gives a shit about the guy who's written some of the most influential comics of all time. we want easy cheddar.

They aren't just biting the hand that feeds them anymore, they've gnawed it off up to the shoulder.

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 Post subject: Re: Western Cartoons/Comics
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:12 am 
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On the flip side I'm pretty sure that if H.G. Wells were alive today, he would consider Mr. Hyde's rape and murder of The Invisible Man to be very respectful.

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 Post subject: Re: Western Cartoons/Comics
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:34 am 
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But you know, he isn't, and Wells might also realise the difference of using a public domain character for inspiration (Moore's League of Extra-Ordinary Gentlemen clearly differs from it's source material) and using an author's exact characters without permission, to clearly cash in on the success of a movie adaption.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Cartoons/Comics
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:01 am 
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Syobon wrote:
using an author's exact characters without permission
They belong to DC, though, not Moore. They can do whatever the hell they want with the characters. I'm just glad it was a set of prequel miniseries rather than some cocked-up sequel. Some of the issues I've read don't feel like they're trying to cash in. It seems like a few of them are actually trying to write solid, intriguing stories. Sure, some of the series fall flat, but that's the nature of it all. And why would they try to capitalize on a three-year old movie when they could capitalize on the success of the original graphic novel which is by far the better version? And another thing: Why should Moore even care in the first place? He could just make something better than Before Watchmen and put DC in its place rather than pissing and moaning; He obviously has the ability.

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 Post subject: Re: Western Cartoons/Comics
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:15 am 
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Sure DC has the legal right to do whatever it wants with it's characters, that doesn't mean compromising the integrity of a finished story by adding unnecessary fluff is ethically correct. And while the graphic novel is of course far superior in terms of quality, the movie is more widespread and popular. It makes sense from a business perspective to utilise that increase in popularity to sell more products, although they're indeed a bit late to the prom.

And Moore has already made a multitude comics far better than Before Watchmen, he doesn't need to prove his worth any more. Unless you mean he should have made a prequel himself, but that doesn't make any sense since he felt the story was finished and didn't need any additions. As to why he cares, he obviously cares about the characters he created and isn't pop flyin' to see his legacy diminished by second-rate comics.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Cartoons/Comics
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:30 am 
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But he's already created a new legacy independent of his work at DC; I don't see why he should care any more when he's already made and will continue to make good series on his own. And the people more likely to go to spend their time going to a local comics shop to pick out what Before Watchmen issues they want to read are in all likelihood fans of the original graphic novel. A person who's only watched the movie would not, three years later, go to a local comic book shop and decide to pick up the series. That makes no sense.

And it's not like his legacy is going to be diminished; the original Watchmen series will still be critically acclaimed and adored by fans for many years to come. The actual work, when you take it on its own, is not going to be downgraded by the mere existence of material that some other person/people made.

Honestly if he's still pent up about Watchmen he should go pray to his snake-god to give the people over at DC cancer or something.

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 Post subject: Re: Western Cartoons/Comics
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:50 am 
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When you create characters and a narrative you usually develop some emotional bond with them, if he feels his creations are being mistreated that would naturally upset him.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Cartoons/Comics
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:25 am 
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If someone would use my characters, against my express wishes, to squeeze out more cheddar out of them with mediocre or even bad stories, I'd be pretty upset about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Western Cartoons/Comics
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:51 pm 
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But have you actually read any of them? The Ozymandias series is supposed to be good, and so is the Minutemen series. Sure, they won't live up to or receive anywhere near the 40 years of acclaim that the original series has gotten, but they're still good. Judging by the the artist blurbs in the back of the issues, the creators of the individual series are enthusiastic about creating the comics, rather than mindless drones drawing things for cheddar.

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