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 Post subject: Re: Obscure Shit Thread, or The Hipster Circlejerk Emporium
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:56 pm 
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There's a difference between borrowing from lore and legend and blatantly ripping off an entire novel's plot. The former has no identifiable author and is generally altered to fit the user's needs so as to become somewhat original. The latter is attributable to an author and subject to copyright because it is an original story that draws on the folklore but doesn't claim it. Also, his estate had already denied the rights to a movie based on Dracula so they just went and changed some words around to avoid copyright, which failed pretty spectacularly.

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 Post subject: Re: Obscure Shit Thread, or The Hipster Circlejerk Emporium
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:38 pm 
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Madican wrote:
There's a difference between borrowing from lore and legend and blatantly ripping off an entire novel's plot. The former has no identifiable author and is generally altered to fit the user's needs so as to become somewhat original. The latter is attributable to an author and subject to copyright because it is an original story that draws on the folklore but doesn't claim it. Also, his estate had already denied the rights to a movie based on Dracula so they just went and changed some words around to avoid copyright, which failed pretty spectacularly.
But there's also a difference between the ethical complications surrounding a work of art's creation and its artistic and cultural merit. Are you so emotionally invested in Bram Stoker's estate that this transparent re-branding galls your enjoyment of the movie? I seriously doubt it and ask more frankly: Do you believe that the outline of a plot is all there is to a movie? That there are no good movies based on existing literary source material (and, to shatter the notion that they cannot surpass it or equal its merit on different grounds: Shining)

There's nothing wrong with disliking "Nosferatu" (or thinking it less than a masterpiece, it's certainly not without its issues), but can't help but feel slightly offended by the sustained silliness of your quibble with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Obscure Shit Thread, or The Hipster Circlejerk Emporium
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:48 pm 
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I've never even read Dracula and I saw Nosferatu before I learned about it ripping off Stoker's work. However, while I was content to dislike Nosferatu for being unforgivably boring, once I learned it had stolen its material that was enough for me to dismiss any sort of merit it might have had.

Had they received permission and proceeded to make that bore of a movie, or even come up with it themselves, I'd still just be disliking it. They didn't. They decided that they had more of a right to the story than those who owned it and took it wholesale. There is no merit in plagiarism.

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 Post subject: Re: Obscure Shit Thread, or The Hipster Circlejerk Emporium
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:10 pm 
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Madican wrote:
I've never even read Dracula and I saw Nosferatu before I learned about it ripping off Stoker's work. However, while I was content to dislike Nosferatu for being unforgivably boring, once I learned it had stolen its material that was enough for me to dismiss any sort of merit it might have had.

Had they received permission and proceeded to make that bore of a movie, or even come up with it themselves, I'd still just be disliking it. They didn't. They decided that they had more of a right to the story than those who owned it and took it wholesale. There is no merit in plagiarism.
That still strikes me as a somewhat lazy and irrelevant objection on ethical matters, ignoring all the craft and original content of the movie - matters that are not immanent to the work, and which you wouldn't know of had you not read about them. Even a banal, unadorned "it was boring" would've been a more appropriate and relevant than your "it's stolen and stealing is bad".

And even if a work of art personally bores you it's still possible to analyze and appreciate its influence, cultural significance and originality (all three of which "Nosferatu" has in spades).

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 Post subject: Re: Obscure Shit Thread, or The Hipster Circlejerk Emporium
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:14 am 
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Madican wrote:
I don't deem Nosferatu a masterpiece when it systematically ripped off Dracula. It's like tracing over a work of art; yeah it might be a real good trace but it's still just copying what already exists.

It isnt really a ripoff either, Orlock is more based on the folklore vampire than Dracula was.That said, its not the plot that Nosferatu is most known for, its the cinematography.

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 Post subject: Re: Obscure Shit Thread, or The Hipster Circlejerk Emporium
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:14 pm 
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Good artists copy, great artists steal, as they say.

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 Post subject: Re: Obscure Shit Thread, or The Hipster Circlejerk Emporium
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:20 pm 
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I knew a guy who thought the Alice in Wonderland movie was "tacky". We tried to convince him that it was a classic and nothing in it was cliche when it came out, but he wouldn't listen. /shrug

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 Post subject: Re: Obscure Shit Thread, or The Hipster Circlejerk Emporium
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:18 am 
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i have contributed all i can to this conversation

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 Post subject: Re: Obscure Shit Thread, or The Hipster Circlejerk Emporium
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:15 pm 
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Lambeth wrote:
Good artists copy, great artists steal, as they say.


It was common practice in Shakespeare's time to go to other plays and take notes on good stories; some of his classics might just be rehashed plays by other writers.

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 Post subject: Re: Obscure Shit Thread, or The Hipster Circlejerk Emporium
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:18 pm 
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There's this Swiss musician guy I really like called Vladimir Cochet who has not one but THREE one-man metal bands. He has made some really unique stuff. Mirrorthrone is his least obscure project because it got some coverage by appearing in Brutal Legend with this song which is how I found out about him:


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 Post subject: Re: Obscure Shit Thread, or The Hipster Circlejerk Emporium
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:18 pm 
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So I got around to watching Hausu. It's more like Evil Dead 2 crossed with Paranormal Activity. I laughed, I cried, a girl got eaten by a piano, good times.

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 Post subject: Re: Obscure Shit Thread, or The Hipster Circlejerk Emporium
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:49 am 
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I mostly listen to bands that play traditional music with modern sensibilities. Most of the stuff I have posted in the currently listening to thread are from them.

Gjallarhorn is from southern Ostrobothnia, Finland. They sang mostly in Swedish and Old Norse. They used traditional instruments and exotic ones, such as african percussions and didgeridoos. Their first two albums contained medieval ballads, polskas, rímur, kulning (cow-calling technique used by Swedish farmers). Their third and fourth album were much more experimental and I don't really like them. Eldgjald (my favorite), I Fjol Så (second favorite), Suvetar (has a nice music video)

Värttinä is from Karelia and exists since 1983. I don't know how obscure they are exactly. They sing traditional and original songs in Karelian. At first the band had 26 members, but it changed a lot over the years and now it's usually three singers and musicians. One of their songs was featured in an Arthur Christmas special. Seelinnikoi, Oi dai (soft), Äijö (darker)

Ranarim (disbanded) was a Swedish traditional music band. Brinna inga hjärtan, Maj vare välkommen

Hedningarna is a Swedish folk rock band formed in 1989. They also had two Finnish singers from their second album to their fourth one. One of its members is a luthier and created new instruments to make the sounds they wanted. Vargtimmen (used for the trailer of The Witcher 2), Bierdna, Grodan (compare this one with Värttinä's Oi dai), Graucholorfen, Pornopolka

Kapela ze Wsi Warszawa is a Polish band. Their first album was straight up traditional music, but the following ones had more modern influences (jazz, rap, reggae, indian music). They even published an album full of remixes of their songs. They have a manifesto and kind of started a whole new musical movement in Poland. Their latest album was made in collaboration with Hedningarna and a Canadian aboriginal artist. Baba w piekle and its remix, Gospodarz, Spiritual Revival (reggae remix of another song), Kto sie zani, Ej ty, gburski synie (with Hedningarna), the promomix of their latest album

Żywiołak was founded by a former member of Kapela ze Wsi Warszawa and is a folk rock band. Their first album had more roots to slavonic music. Their second one was more of a concept album about Chopin reincarnated as a garden gnome. Epopeja wandalska, Mój miły rolniku, Moskwa, Femina (compare with Kapela ze Wsi Warszawa's Kto sie zani)

R.U.T.A. is a Polish punk gathered by Kapela ze Wsi Warszawa's leader. Some of their songs are actually texts from the 1800's about oppressed peasants and feudalism and stuff. The Polish parliament tried to ban them at some point. Z batogami na panów

Valravn is a Danish folktronica band. They started as Virelai, a medieval music band. The singer is from the Faroe Islands and some of their songs are in Faroese. Krummi (traditional Icelandic song), Ólavur Riddararós (Faroese, also sung by the Faroese metal band Tyr), Kelling (also Faroese, my favorite)

Etran Finatawa is a blues band from Niger. Its members are Tuareg and Wodaabe people, two nomad tribes. They sing in both languages about the hardships of the nomad life. They also toured all around Niger to meet children in schools and show them the importance of protecting their culture. Aliss, Surbajo (music video), interview

Altan Urag is a Mongolian folk rock band. They play traditional instruments and their songs feature throat singing. Davalgaa/Mongol Ijii (two sungs in one music video)

Ekova (disbanded) was a trio composed of an American singer, an Iranian clarinetist and an algerian lutanist. Some of their songs had some Arabian influences, but they were all experimental. In most cases, the lyrics have no meaning at all and are only sounds, but they are not improvised. Siip siie, Venus and One, Temoine and its remix, Todosim, Steel Bird, Sabura.


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 Post subject: Re: Obscure Shit Thread, or The Hipster Circlejerk Emporium
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:52 am 
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Anyone who's a friend of Nordic folk music is my friend as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Obscure Shit Thread, or The Hipster Circlejerk Emporium
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:16 pm 
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Mete wrote:
Anyone who's a friend of Nordic folk music is my friend as well.
I'm not sure "world music" should be called traditional music at all, if that's what you had in mind with "folk" music.

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 Post subject: Re: Obscure Shit Thread, or The Hipster Circlejerk Emporium
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:30 am 
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I had to look up that term on Last.fm and found out that it's apparently ten kinds of terrible and racist
And I'm not exactly sure how Nordic folk music would fit that definition either to be honest

Though I have to admit I don't really listen to actual folk music made by modern bands, rather I enjoy folk influences in metal for example.

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