AWKWARD ZOMBIE

Please refer to the chart and prepare your strategy accordingly.

What even is the point of the top half of Hyrule other than a convenient place for the smash ball to spawn

I once fought this ridiculously good Samus who couldn't be touched by me or my buddy in Brawl. I was stuck down there until like 300 percent

My 7 year old nephew beat me at Melee today. I haven't really played Melee in about 4 years, and I've only played Sm4sh since then. I picked Marth and I kept SD'ing because I don't know how much end lag his aerials have and how far he can recover in Melee. Then I went Captain Falcon and the same thing happened. My nephew bodaciously just spammed Dr. Mario's side smash and won because I couldn't follow him off stage without dying and my urge to follow off stage and style is just too high to resist.

I'm a disgrace.

Seeing as you're rusty with Melee, I think Ganon is probably the best choice, just cause you can just spam C-Stick down air and it works for noobs like me and especially is effective against the strategy of spamming side smash.

Also L-Cancels will come in very, very, handy if you can use them.

Primarily being a Project M player, I feel like I'll have something of an opposite problem if/when I finally get ahold of Smash 4.

Cloud is now probably one of my favorite characters, holy fuck does this guy have an array of shit he can do. I mean, really, a Down A for fake-outs, an up B that's a nice surprise attack(though easy to mess up and make an embarassing recovery fail...), and a side b for ranged potential THAT CAN BE A KO AT HIGH PERCENTAGES.

Cloud's just outright fuckin' fun for me, this guy's gonna rise if he keeps this up. Only wish there was new music.

Seeing as online play is super Cloud-y as of now, what are your suggestions for fighting Cloud?


He has ridiculous range and good zoning/spammable projectiles and is pretty fast. Any good match ups or strategies to counter him?
I mainly play Ike and Mario with a respectable Mac, and considering Ryu as of now.

Cloud is a really strong all-around fighter, the only thing I can suggest is to bring characters that can counter, since most Clouds are extremely trigger pop flyin' to combo you in the air.

The first thing I could think of is have yourself play as Cloud, and then go up against the rest of the roster with the A.I. set to level 9 (If you need to, turn on team battle with everyone completely against you). That way, you know from experience where Cloud has his downfalls.

Second idea, which is a complete dart throw, would Falco be a good counter to Cloud?

Level 9 CPUs aren't the best for training, they're such a weird mix of technically perfect and strategically moronic that you'll learn terrible habits from them. A level 7 is probably the sweet spot for approximating a decent player.

Ordinarily it'd be best to play against real people, of course, but if your only option there is to play online then the lag will actually teach you even worse habits. Spam works way too well when your opponent is shielding with a half-second delay.

I've read and experienced that just using your shield to absorb Cloud's attacks is safer than trying to dodge. I haven't really noticed good matchups against him among the characters I play. Either the player is mediocre and I can hold my own with any character, or he's an invincible god-mode machine that's no fun at all to play against.

I still think he's a terribly designed character. His normal attacks are just copies of Ike's down to the animation and his final smash is very generic too, and other than that he's a swordsman Mary Sue. It's not enough that he has Ike's moves and strength, all his moves are better in every way. Oh and he's as fast as Marth, that seems fair enough. And let's give him a range more ridiculous than Shulk's. Oh and while we're at it why not give him Little Mac's Press B to Win mechanic except he can charge it at will, and at the same time give him the best vertical recovery move in the game that also traps opponents to hit them multiple times like Kirby's up special. And his charged normals are multi-hits like Link's but quicker and more powerful and with a wider radius. Oh and since we can't get enough annoying overly-long animations in this installment, let's have his instant-win moves make the camera zoom in on him in slow motion.

he's ike but with even worse recovery, get him off stage and do like one aerial and he's gone

No they're not, what? I'm gonna need you to stop telling outright lies lol

Dealing with Cloudy weather? Longish post incoming.

Ditto to the get him offstage and tap him. I'm biased and say bring Megaman, because Cloud's recovery is so predictable, and dear god do you have options for edgeguarding him. Lemons, Flame Sword, Slash Claw if you're ballsy, standing there with Leaf Shield if you want since he doesn't snap to the ledge, and of course Hard Knuckle for the spike. You can also use Flame Blast with proper timing. That sort of edgeguard does rely on him popping above the ledge a little, though Hard Knuckle is always applicable, as is just walking off the ledge with Leaf Shield active after holding it for a second.

From personal experience, though, I find Samus is fun for dealing with Cloud if you're aware of his movement. I find that anyone facing a Samus tends to get airhappy, especially when they've got the advantage in aerial attack range. It makes baiting them in to Charge Shot kills very easy, and Cloud players' love of Limit Breaks gives you all the time you need to prepare them. I haven't had much luck with getting him in the air outside of Samus' fair seemingly being faster than Cloud's fair. His dair outpaces your uair, though you should both get hit once pretty often. Similar to Cloud dittos, Cloud's uair outpaces your dair as Samus - in fact, Cloud's uair seems to outpace most dairs. Your best bet is usually gonna be to dodge it.

On the flipside, do not Dorf unless you've got someone you can bait. I'm not the best touchstone for this, but my experience is all I have to offer, and I have never Dorf'd a Cloud that was even remotely intelligent. The smart ones keep that sword in my way & aren't dumb enough to approach much. His recovery will hit you if you try to utilt him out of it very often because he doesn't snap to the ledge, and he simply has better range and speed than you do. His recovery is better than yours vertically, but not horizontally, so you can abuse that with a Fair or Dair if you get him offstage. That, however, is true of all characters to a point: abusing Cloud off-stage has led me to win at 30% damage with no stocks lost.

I do not suggest Cloud Ditto unless you're confident you play a better Cloud than they do, though I think that goes for most dittos. If you do try it though, remember that Uair hits before Dair - if they get you up, airdodging past is your best bet if they give chase. There's a gap before his fsmash hits, even uncharged - enough time to shield, but do not roll away. The number of times I've been caught by the third hit because I rolled on instinct is ridiculous. That shit kills.

Do not try to abuse Final Touch, it's not that great. Yes, it can kill very early, but it requires a near point-blank hit and comes out slower than it looks. Don't underestimate the Limit Break version of his recovery, either, that shit hurts. Remember that at very low percents you can airdodge the second hit of his recovery if he's trying that on you.

On the flipside, if your opponent is trying to kill with Final Touch, you can abuse that readily. They have to get in quite close to pull it off, so a simple airdodge or shield will get you out of it, and his cooldown is long enough for a quick punish.

Some Clouds are gonna pretend they're Mario and go for a grab above all else. If they land it, they're going to dthrow you and turn around for a side special. Don't let them follow up if at all possible.

...Most of this sounds like a rambling mess to me, but I typed too much to just close it out. I hope at least some of it helps. I also apologize for the limited character experience - I bought this game for Megaman and have picked up Samus, Dorf, and Cloud, and am working on adding Marth and Captain Falcon to the list. Can't say as I feel like a terribly versatile fighter.