AWKWARD ZOMBIE

ITT: DnD makes a fool of himself by trying to argue that a Pokemon who outclasses nearly all Pokemon in its class and would completely dominate the metagame should not be moved out of standard balanced games. He argues this by... not actually saying why, and making some very bad analogy to a situation that is nothing at all like what we're talking about.


Heck, even if you had an Ice move, it normally wouldn't be able to KO Garchomp unless it was from an Ice-type Pokemon. And even then it'd likely die in one hit so it has to be faster than the already-fast Garcomp (read: probably just Weavile). And even THEN there's only a 75% of the attack connecting, and if it doesn't you're boned!
While on the other hand, the only reason NOT to move it to Uber is because it's not a legendary and you want to be able to use any non-legendary in a tournament, no matter how imbalanced it is. Except for Wobbuffet, which you fully accept. And Wynaut, which you also fully accept.
In other words, the only reason you WOULDN'T want it to be Uber-only is because you like the Pokemon itself and are BAWWWing that you can't use it in a tourney.

Cry some more.




Also, if anyone's interested, so far 4 people have sent in their teams!

I think I made a decent team. I suppose I could PM you them. Unless you think it's better to use MSN or AIM for these kind of things.

Are we allowed to center teams around weather-altering moves and Baton Pass?

Also, we could just use ShoddyBattle...

How did this not come up sooner?

Just use shoddy and their standard rules. No complications no butthurt and noone needs to actually have a game.

Woop, we currently have 7 contestants now! *awesomeface*


Totally sure! If you think you can pull it off properly, of course. Don't forget that in a knockout one unlucky interruption - such as if the opponent had Roar and gets you at a bad time - can mean you lose entirely.


That defeats the big point about it - that you can actually keep watch of the matches. It'd be like if all of the matches in a World Cup tournament weren't recorded at all.



...

Get the fuck out of my thread!

Hey, what's the deadline on getting a team sent to you anyway, Plasma? I want to know exactly how long I can procrastinate.

Lets say... one week from now!

I don't like it when people dismantle games 'for tourney purposes' and then suddenly if you want to play the game any other way, people hark back to the tourney way of playing saying stuff like: 'You wouldn't have won if we played tourney rules', because they can't accept that they're gonna lose sometime.

Long story short I've had enough of that kind of f@gg0try from Brawl tourneyf@gs, so I have even less time for Pokemon tourneyf@gs.

Plus I was venting at that comment for hilarity purposes (and I won't miss an opportunity to use that Garchomp image).



I don't like this rule though, I don't see why it's such a big deal.

Did you pull this from existing tourney rules? Is it just to stop people spamming 'Double-Team'? Does it mean I couldn't give 'Hail' to a Froslass?

That's basically what you're doing except backwards.

Besides, if Garchomp wasn't uber everyone would use them like they were the only pokemon that mattered (and they would be). Does "Fox only" sound familiar to you?

I don't have a problem with losing. I lose a lot.


They just move on to the next one who's at the top of the list anyway.

I gathered Weavile was the currently favoured 'Fox only' Pokemon (to use your analogy).

Also, bringing this up again:


These kind of moves allow you to stand a chance against troublesome Pokemon like Garchomp, that's why they're in the game, that's why I have issues with people dismantling video games for the purposes of tournaments.

I don't like using Brawl so much for analogy purposes, but... It's like Brawl tournaments that disallow the use of items. Items are there to level the playing field, just like certain Pokemon moves are there to level the playing field.

If you start dismantling the game too much you start removing things that actually make the game 'fairer'.

Oh, guys, I've got three rules that I'm not sure if I should add. I demand opinions!
1: You can't have two Pokemon be put to sleep on a team.
2: You can't have two Pokemon be frozen on a team.
3: You can't tie a game. Who wins if both remaining Pokemon are knocked out depends on:
-If the attacking Pokemon is KOed by recoil, the attacking player wins.
-If the attacking Pokemon is KOed by self-destruct or explosion, the opposing player wins.
-Destiny Bond and Perish Song always fail if used by a player's final Pokemon.

Those three rules are actually enforced by the game itself, so there's no need to worry about accidentally doing them in-game.



See, I'm sure your point would be perfectly valid... IF WE WEREN'T TALKING ABOUT IT IN REFERENCE TO A POKEMON TOURNAMENT!
GOD
daisies


Yeah don't do that. Either of those things.



Yes and yes. It's a standard rule (not counting Nintendo tournaments). It's because it's generally a too-overpowered move; only being able to be hit 1/4 of the time (I think) is, well... yeah. And unlike accuracy-reduction, is VEEERY hard to reverse!

The only rule that isn't standard is the No Duplicate Items Clause. It's still a very popular rule for tournaments, but it's not standard in the meta-game. Except that it is for Nintendo tournaments (and, IIRC, Pokemon Battle Revolution's single player. It's an optional rule in custom matches)


Yes, because Hail is a move that increases evasion.
Or were you referring to Froslass's ability? Because that is decidedly not a move.
Or maybe you were referring to how Hail creates a Hailstorm which activates Froslass's ability, therefore meaning that Hail increases evasion as a side effect so th- oh wait I already clarified that too.


Seriously, what is up with you today?

So I assume you got my PM, Plasma?

I'm not really sure as I haven't heard of you since to check to see if everything's alright, and such. :X

I think evasion moves are mostly banned because they can make battles drag on for way too long.

Your "level the playing field" argument doesn't really work when you take into account that those moves are available to many pokemon, not just the lesser ones, so they can be used to make a broken pokemon even more broken, which does very little to level the playing field.

Also, the reason items are generally banned in Brawl tournaments isn't simply because they're items, it's the fact that they spawn randomly, which can give a player an advantage due to luck. Generally people want luck to be as small a factor as possible in a tournament. If items spawned predictably, they'd be allowed. Yes, this is completely off-topic but I felt the need to say this anyway.




Well, last I checked it was Scizor (although that was a very long time ago) but I see your point.

The difference is, while Weavile/Scizor are pokemon everyone uses, they aren't so good that they make all others completely irrelevant. Garchomp is powerful enough that it can pretty destroy almost anything, and it has very few weakness (as far as I know, Weavile is pretty much the only pokemon that can easily take down a Garchomp). Weavile/Scizor, on the other hand, have far more weaknesses and are thus considered more balanced.

I'll try to use less shitty analogies from now on, sorry.

I'm not good in tournaments, sorry.

They bring out the worst in me.

Bad past experiences.

Oh hey, page get! I'll use this time to point out that:
1: The current people who've submitted a team are: Deiphobus (3 PMs), Crawfish, Billyjum, Guyperson, and Petah-Petah (2 PMs). I'm just pointing that out because I'm not replying to these PMs so I'm just confirming that I've got them.
2: I haven't checked to see if any of those Pokemon are completely legal, and I plan on doing that on the weekend.
3: I said this a while ago, but it was in a slow edit and I think a lot of you missed it, so repost:

I've got three rules that I'm not sure if I should add. I demand opinions!
1: You can't have two Pokemon be put to sleep on a team.
2: You can't have two Pokemon be frozen on a team.
3: You can't tie a game. Who wins if both remaining Pokemon are knocked out depends on:
-If the attacking Pokemon is KOed by recoil, the attacking player wins.
-If the attacking Pokemon is KOed by self-destruct or explosion, the opposing player wins.
-Destiny Bond and Perish Song always fail if used by a player's final Pokemon.

Those three rules are actually enforced by the game itself, so there's no need to worry about accidentally doing them in-game.





Well don't forget that Pokemon is specifically DESIGNED for competitive play. The only reason that Pokemon like Wobbuffet and Garchomp were banned from OU is because Gamefreak screwed up with them. And considering that's pretty much the ONLY imbalance in the games (banning OHKO and evasion moves are generally more opinion-sided than necessary), that's really saying a lot!
Whereas SSB really... isn't. They really are a case of Tourneyfags trying to turn a normally casual game into a competition, despite that the developers have pretty much gone out of their way to emphasise that they shouldn't.