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 Post subject: Re: The Elder Scrolls
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:58 pm 
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Sithis is definitely something though, and she relays what he says to the mortal world.

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 Post subject: Re: The Elder Scrolls
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:05 pm 
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Sithis isn't a Daedra either. He is the personification of chaos. What the Night Mother is exactly is hard to say, and it seems to have changed in between games.


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 Post subject: Re: The Elder Scrolls
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:30 pm 
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Syobon wrote:
Sithis isn't a Daedra either. He is the personification of chaos. What the Night Mother is exactly is hard to say, and it seems to have changed in between games.


He's not chaos, he's nothing.

Sometimes people count him as a daedra, but he's really not anything.



Sithis is confusing.

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 Post subject: Re: The Elder Scrolls
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:45 pm 
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No, he's not nothing. Nothing is the Void. In the beginning, there were Anu and Padomai in the Void, static and change. It's from the interaction between those two that the universe came forth. Sithis is the embodiment of Padomai.


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 Post subject: Re: The Elder Scrolls
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:22 pm 
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That's like direct opposition to what you're told in the DB quests, which is that he's bodaciously the void itself.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Sithis

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 Post subject: Re: The Elder Scrolls
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:43 pm 
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Yes, there seems to be some contradiction there, seeing as your own link mentions Sithis is Padomay. From the book Sithis one could even construct that Sithis is the opposite of the Void
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Sithis is the start of the house. Before him was nothing, but the foolish Altmer have names for and revere this nothing. That is because they are lazy slaves. Indeed, from the Sermons, 'stasis asks merely for itself, which is nothing.'

Sithis sundered the nothing and mutated the parts, fashioning from them a myriad of possibilities. These ideas ebbed and flowed and faded away and this is how it should have been.

One idea, however, became jealous and did not want to die; like the stasis, he wanted to last. This was the demon Anui-El, who made friends, and they called themselves the Aedra. They enslaved everything that Sithis had made and created realms of everlasting imperfection. Thus are the Aedra the false gods, that is, illusion.

So Sithis begat Lorkhan and sent him to destroy the universe. Lorkhan! Unstable mutant!

Lorkhan had found the Aedric weakness. While each rebel was, by their nature, immeasurable, they were, through jealously and vanity, also separate from each other. They were also unwilling to go back to the nothing of before. So while they ruled their false dominions, Lorkhan filled the void with a myriad of new ideas. These ideas were legion. Soon it seemed that Lorkhan had a dominion of his own, with slaves and everlasting imperfections, and he seemed, for all the world, like an Aedra. Thus did he present himself as such to the demon Anui-El and the Eight Givers: as a friend.

Go unto the Sharmat Dagoth Ur as a friend.

AE HERMA MORA ALTADOON PADHOME LKHAN AE AI.


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 Post subject: Re: The Elder Scrolls
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:46 pm 
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What it seems to me after some research is that Sithis is the void, but the concept of the void also comes with the concept of chaos. So he's basically the "god" of chaos, but he himself is technically nothingness.

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 Post subject: Re: The Elder Scrolls
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:51 pm 
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How can he be anything if he is bodaciously nothing though? Perhaps Sithis is merely the entropic aspect of chaos, and he is the Void in that he will eventually reduce the universe to it.


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 Post subject: Re: The Elder Scrolls
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:54 pm 
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He's not anything. He's nothing. "He" isn't even really a "he". The DB refers to "him" with male pronouns because I guess it's easier. Sithis isn't really a "he" or even an "it" as much as the sheer void of nothingness itself.

Like I said, Sithis is confusing.

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 Post subject: Re: The Elder Scrolls
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:12 pm 
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No, my point was that if he's the embodiment of chaos, he's something and thus not nothing. It doesn't make sense for nothing to go around doing stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: The Elder Scrolls
PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:40 pm 
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I think it's less that chaos and nothing are two different things in one, and more the same thing. Chaos comes from the void, and the void comes from chaos. Sithis is chaos and nothingness because nothingness is chaos, and chaos is nothingness.

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 Post subject: Re: The Elder Scrolls
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:27 am 
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I want to say the point they were going for is that there's "existence" and "nonexistence" in their general, unadulterated meaning, and Sithis is supposed to be the personification of "nonexistence". That's like whenever death is brought up as a physical form, people get caught up in "oh, he's a tall white guy with black hair" when it's more that the tall white guy with black hair is "death", as in what you think of when you imagine death, only in human form.

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 Post subject: Re: The Elder Scrolls
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:59 am 
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In non-lore-related news

I started a new run of Oblivion with an all-mage character, we'll see how this goes.
No weapons, no (real) armor, mostly just destruction, illusion, and mysticism spells.

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 Post subject: Re: The Elder Scrolls
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:31 am 
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SITHIS IS CHAOS DARK MAGIC AND HERESY AND THUS MUST BE PURGED

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 Post subject: Re: The Elder Scrolls
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:44 am 
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Galaxy Man wrote:
I think it's less that chaos and nothing are two different things in one, and more the same thing. Chaos comes from the void, and the void comes from chaos. Sithis is chaos and nothingness because nothingness is chaos, and chaos is nothingness.

But this is directly in contradiction with the creation myths that have both Anu, Padomay and the Void. Furthermore, how can chaos be nothingness? Chaos is change, but when there is nothing, nothing can change. The book of Sithis points this out too.
Reyo wrote:
I want to say the point they were going for is that there's "existence" and "nonexistence" in their general, unadulterated meaning, and Sithis is supposed to be the personification of "nonexistence". That's like whenever death is brought up as a physical form, people get caught up in "oh, he's a tall white guy with black hair" when it's more that the tall white guy with black hair is "death", as in what you think of when you imagine death, only in human form.

This is kind of what I was going for with thinking of Sithis as the entropic aspect of change.


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