AWKWARD ZOMBIE

usually not funny
It is currently Fri Jan 30, 2026 2:41 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Mortis Ghost's OFF
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 4:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:41 am
Posts: 6616
Location: we're all somewhere, man
yeah, i did

figured out that zacharie lets me use them if i leave and come back

so now i've beaten the game and what have i done

_________________
Image
^it's a tumblr link oh geez^
oh man is this a steam profile


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mortis Ghost's OFF
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 4:15 am 
Offline
The Woman Wearing the Queenly Mask
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:23 pm
Posts: 4658
Location: street corner
after i finished OFF i sort of stared at a wall and cried for a while

_________________
Quote:
[6:03:50 PM] Le Great Handsome Oppressor: bring on the banana

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mortis Ghost's OFF
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 4:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:41 am
Posts: 6616
Location: we're all somewhere, man
this is gonna be one of those games where i'm gonna have to sit for a while in total silence and try to figure out what exactly just happened and how do i feel about it

current status: i have no idea
and really bad

_________________
Image
^it's a tumblr link oh geez^
oh man is this a steam profile


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mortis Ghost's OFF
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 5:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:48 pm
Posts: 2583
Cry every time you watch the Wizard of Oz

Also Hugo is way harder to deal with than Critic Burnt


As far as actual interpretations go though, I know that Hugo made the Batter and the Queen and that was just sorta left out of the English translation, but what was going on with Chapter 4:IH3F? Is the Batter somehow the same person as Hugo, or have access to his memories, or does it have something to do with the way the Room works? And does the Batter really say anything during that part or are the Guardians just reacting to things that have already happened, like a recording?

On another note, does anyone know if MG ever said anything about if Secretaries are specters or not? I can imagine that they aren't but I was wondering if he ever confirmed that.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mortis Ghost's OFF
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 5:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:41 am
Posts: 6616
Location: we're all somewhere, man
It seems to be implied that this is how Hugo sees the guardians and how they react to him. What you're seeing is more of a memory.

I have a very sneaking suspicion that the whole thing is Hugo dying, stuck in a coma. The Queen and Batter used to try and take care of the world he created in his dream, but forgot to actually help him, and by the time The Batter figures out that Hugo is dying and thus the world is falling apart, it's too late, and the zones have been corrupted. The Queen continues to pretend that everything is fine, but The Batter decides to purify Hugo's mind and mercy kill him, instead of letting him suffer for his own fate. That's why purified zones have a child yelling for help and banging against something in the music, Hugo is trapped in his own dying dream, and The Batter is his savior.

_________________
Image
^it's a tumblr link oh geez^
oh man is this a steam profile


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mortis Ghost's OFF
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 6:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:48 pm
Posts: 5526
Location: The town I live in
wordNumber wrote:
On another note, does anyone know if MG ever said anything about if Secretaries are specters or not? I can imagine that they aren't but I was wondering if he ever confirmed that.

I think they're just Elsen. Something about the batter's perception? Sort of like how you see the batter when playing as the judge.

_________________
Since this is garbled English, please refer to the brutal attack of confusion.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mortis Ghost's OFF
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 6:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:48 pm
Posts: 2583
Galaxy Man wrote:


I do kinda like this interpretation because it makes the whole issue of the Batter's morality even harder to determine. Although I dunno if it is the one I would personally like the most, even though there's a whole bunch evidence for it.

I feel like the thing going on with Hugo and his family might also be a "god" metaphor, specifically the Father, Son, Holy Spirt (although I don't know which is which), and because they are each associated with creation, maintenance, and destruction (although that's more a Hinduism thing then Judeo-Christian). I don't really know why that would be but I still like it.


YCobb wrote:


This is a really cool take on it although I don't know why this would be. Specifically I don't know how the Elsens would become so violent without becoming burnt. There's also the Safe Elsen in Pure Zone 2. I feel like Zone Purification might just summon the Secretaries who do all the metaphysical purifying, although I wouldn't know for sure. If you know anything that supports what you said though I'd love to hear it.

On another note, I wanted to bring up Enoch's line about how the specters are the dead and how he thinks they should just disappear. Its a really curious line, because the first bit is treated as a big reveal of sorts and the second bit is never addressed anywhere else, although it leads credence to the "dying dream" interpritation.

La-dee-da writing essays about video games dot-de-do.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mortis Ghost's OFF
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 8:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:48 pm
Posts: 5526
Location: The town I live in
Quote:
This is a really cool take on it although I don't know why this would be. Specifically I don't know how the Elsens would become so violent without becoming burnt. There's also the Safe Elsen in Pure Zone 2. I feel like Zone Purification might just summon the Secretaries who do all the metaphysical purifying, although I wouldn't know for sure. If you know anything that supports what you said though I'd love to hear it.


I haven't got any more evidence for it, no. I had to willfully ignore the safe Elsen in coming up with the theory, actually, so yeah it's pretty bunk. As far as justification for the idea of the batter seeing Elsen differently, if it was worth discussing I'd call it just another progression of his purification? Kill specters then kill the guardians then kill everyone else.m

Different theory: based on the idea of Hugo being a hospitalized child, the secretaries could be the result of hospital staff telling his parents about chances and whatnot - you'll recall they used weird mathematical attacks. If Hugo heard them, even unconsciously, they could manifest in his dream world. They could be violent because they frighten him (low chances, perhaps) or they could be violent towards the batter because they contradict his mission. (high chances for Hugo's recovery).

What I'd really like to find out is the relevance of the backstory - Zacharie killing the frog king and whatnot. How would that tie in to Hugo's disease, if the fan theory is correct?

_________________
Since this is garbled English, please refer to the brutal attack of confusion.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mortis Ghost's OFF
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 8:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:41 am
Posts: 6616
Location: we're all somewhere, man
Okay I need to put down specifically what I think happened in that whole clusterfuck or else I am just going to explode so here we go. All sorts of massive spoilers.

Hugo's parents, at some point when he was very young, split up. Hugo lived with his father, but because he was so young, he resented his father for keeping him away from his mother, when his mother wanted nothing to do with him. Hugo was convinced that eventually his mother would come and take him back. During this time, he grows ill. His father tries to help him with medicine, but Hugo only sees it as punishment. Hugo is given a comic to pass some time, and while he dislikes it, the concepts of the Boxxer and Ballman get into his head.

Eventually, his illness manifests itself as hallucinations. He creates the identities of Dedan, Japhet, and Enoch, who he imagines as his best friends who he will help make a better world with. The Guardians immediately set out to claim lands to create their utopia, which are all contained inside Hugo's imagination. Hugo, however, still considers himself trapped in his room, which is why he does not have his own land in the same sense even though he is also a guardian.

Eventually, Hugo's body and mind break down so much he slips into a coma. In the coma, he imagines his mother coming back for him, which manifests itself as The Queen. His subconscious also manifests a protector from his memories of the comic, as The Batter. The Queen and The Batter represent what Hugo wants the most, love and protection. The Queen and The Batter act as surrogate parents and guardians, protecting Hugo's mind by creating a world from it. Note that the game over music is "Stay In Your Coma", which implies that without The Batter, Hugo will suffer in his sleep forever.

However, The Queen and The Batter fail to actually protect Hugo's sanity and health. Hugo starts to quickly decline and begins a decent into madness and death, which creates spectres and corrupts Elsens. The Queen actively refuses to acknowledge this. Dedan, Japhet, and Enoch all react differently to the Elsens decline. Their weak servitude and unwillingness to protect themselves causes Dedan to grow into a permanent rage with the world. Japhet grows to hate their
permanent sadness and starts attacking them under the guise of Valerie. Enoch is the only one to not become actively hostile, but instead tries to help Hugo's mind through the Elsens, by feeding them Sugar, which he believes will prevent their madness.

The Batter realizes that Hugo is too far gone to be saved, and that now Hugo is trapped in a dying and horrible world. He goes to purify the zones, destroying the madness at the cost of destroying that part of Hugo's mind. He knows that the Guardians, being hostile, are only helping the madness along and blames them for the corruption of their zones. He kills each guardian, which purifies Hugo's mind more and more. Through the purified zones, you can hear Hugo yelling for help and pounding on the walls of the room he has trapped himself in.

Eventually, the Batter gets to The Room, and travels through Hugo's memories. He meets with The Queen, who is so entrenched in denial that she was unaware of The Batter's purification. The Batter kills The Queen, and then finds Hugo's interpretation of himself as a guardian. He kills the interpretation, finally destroying Hugo's mind completely, leaving it all a white nothing. The Batter then finds the switch, which will allow him to kill Hugo, so he will not suffer in madness nor in nothingness.

The Judge shows up, angry at the player for allowing The Batter to do this. The Judge is not truly angry at The Batter or the player for the purification, but for killing his brother. The Judge decides that even if the world will stay empty, and Hugo will stay mentally dead, it will be okay as long as The Batter does not finish the job and release Hugo.

The endings split from there. If the Judge wins, the world, and Hugo, is stuck in a limbo of nothing. If The Batter wins, he turns the switch off, and Hugo dies, eradicating everything he has imagined and allowing him to rest in peace.


geez this game

_________________
Image
^it's a tumblr link oh geez^
oh man is this a steam profile


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mortis Ghost's OFF
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 8:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:48 pm
Posts: 2583
YCobb wrote:

The internal mythology of the world Hugo created doesn't in itself threaten the idea that it is a dying dream, it may just be there because it's what Hugo expects of thinks should be there. That being said, Zacharie seems to exist to be a cool guy everyone likes, so he could be a friend of Hugo's he idolized in the dream, or maybe a persona created to fulfill the role of friend, considering Hugo spends most of his time alone in a small bedroom. The toad king story-if it is about Zacharie- might just exist to further expand on his coolness.

On the other hand, I have seen suggestions that the reason the Secretaries have the Math-themed-competences is because they are "basic" in nature, like how math is a way of breaking down the laws of the universe into a comparatively simple language. I've also seen them likened to white blood cells, fighting or trying whatever illness Hugo suffers from. They might also represent a perfecting Freudian Superego, in opposition to the desire-bassed "Id" the Specters play, although I admit that there I'm probably following Freud's example and looking for what I want.

In the way of the Elsens, maybe the reason they all look the same is because that's just how the Batter sees them: a group that is defined more by the collective consciousness then their own opinions. That might paint the Batter as something of an Ubermensch, but that is an entirely different category and three paragraphs of black bars is most likely enough.


Galaxy I wrote this before your post showed up and I am tired from writing this so I will read your post in a bit but right know I'm just putting this up.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mortis Ghost's OFF
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:48 am 
Offline
being a gentleman is my jojob
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:43 pm
Posts: 15289
A few years ago, I asked Mortis Ghost to elaborate on Zacharie (and told him of my theory that Zacharie was actually controlled by Mortis Ghost, much like the batter is controlled by the player) and here's what he told me:

Mortis Ghost wrote:
About Zacharie, his case is way complicated since, actually, he's the character with the most developed backstory in the whole game, that never gets mentioned. The reason for this is, it's vaguely planned in a far away future to make another game in which he would be the hero, and by extension, where another player would control him (by the way, that I'd control him during OFF is a very cool theory I hadn't thought of, but it's technically correct and pretty amazing ^^). What's more, he knows how to travel through space and time easier than anyone else (you've probably noticed) and thus understood more things than most other characters. And since I'm spoiling stuff, Sugar is his girlfriend.


While I'm at it, he also mentioned the game with Zacharie as the main character would tell us a lot about the world of OFF and explain a lot of things about the setting and characters.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mortis Ghost's OFF
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:48 pm
Posts: 2583
So I was sifting through some bullshit YT LP to find my favorite Line in the game and I saw a cool thing. When the Judge is talking the Not Valerie on top of the Library he mentions building a cellar in Zone 0 where they can forget all their problems. So I guess that's why the Sugar boss room is where and what it is.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mortis Ghost's OFF
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:46 am 
Offline
The Woman Wearing the Queenly Mask
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:23 pm
Posts: 4658
Location: street corner
hugo's parents are the queen and batter

like

it's canon, at least in the english translation

_________________
Quote:
[6:03:50 PM] Le Great Handsome Oppressor: bring on the banana

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mortis Ghost's OFF
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:41 am
Posts: 6616
Location: we're all somewhere, man
the guy who did the translation actually himself said he mistranslated

the line isn't (paraphrasing here) "I will not allow you to destroy the one who we created", it's "I will not allow you to destroy the one who created us"

The Batter and The Queen, and more than likely all the rest of the world of OFF was created by Hugo. The Batter even says that he has come to the crib of his father, referring to The Room, which is clearly Hugo's domain.

_________________
Image
^it's a tumblr link oh geez^
oh man is this a steam profile


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mortis Ghost's OFF
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:04 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:48 pm
Posts: 2583
The story in the ripped books puzzle in Zone 2, if you can decipher it, also states that The Queen remained with here father after she dispatched the Guardians to their zones. Its sorta foreshadowing.

It also makes a whole bunch sense that way because it would explain why everything looks like a cartoon from the early 2000's.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 47 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 33 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group