AWKWARD ZOMBIE

flare gun is so shit, yeah

free 90 for doin' nothin, shit how can you do worse than that

shit its already in the game

free 195 for doin' nothin

cripes how terrible can the pyro get

he might even get a weapon that restores health on kill or something that increases healing from medpacks or an AoE flare or a ranged knockback or free minicrits if regular crits are too difficult or something that lets him almost-rocket jump increasing his already insane speed with vertical mobility

youre right seriously how much more awful could the pyro get



I was gonna make a mention of hard counters but then I remember we talked about the Engineer before and how hard Valve is trying to do away with them



name one other class that gets free crits as easily as pyro does

can that class also move stupid fast, be bulky as possible with that level of speed, do extreme amounts of damage in no time and also deal 60 DoT damage just from looking at you



lol



spam2stronk

i can't

take this seriously?

because this applies to bodaciously every projectile if you consider that aiming and clicking is "doing nothing"
rockets? pipes? the fucking scout cleaver that he throws? all these things are overpowered?
shit the sniper rifle? i mean if you actually click on someone with that, it's hitscan, the chance to miss is 0%. projectiles have travel time and an arc.
the flare gun is pretty freaking hard to aim with.

not to mention it doesn't even do 90 on a hit. it does 90 on a crit. regular hits do 30. for it to crit, you have to be on fire, which, if you didn't walk into the pyro, means he already hit you with the flare once and you should be looking out for that. it's actually one of the weaker projectile weapons.



and then you complain about things that basically everyone else already has, and/or are shit. oh no an aoe that does like no damage on a projectile weapon. oh no knockback because nobody else has that. oh dear, minicrits, because snipers don't have something that can make everyone in an area do minicrits to you. oh no, being able to go upwards slightly more than a regular jump.

you're not taking into consideration that for a pyro to really hurt you, you have to be close or running in a predictable pattern. not doing either completely defeats the class right there.

he's got one real overpowered weapon, the phlog, and even then you forsake being able to protect yourself and teammates from other projectiles.



sniper
technically if you're on a random crit server, everyone ever.



i don't think you understand a class having strengths balancing out the weaknesses

such as, if you're close to it, it does more damage, because it has no real long-range options
or being able to move quickly, because no long range options
or being bulky because the close range it specializes in is perfect for basically any other class to wreck it's shit

and even then, it's not very fast, it dosen't do very much damage, and it dosen't have the most HP ever

pyro would be the definition of a jack-of-all-stats, but he's technically worse because there's no long range

I think a really good pyro was pubbing, and you're rustled off because of it. There's not any classes in this game that are overpowered, no matter how much you seem to be grasping at to think so. Weapons? Yeah sure there's a few that suck because valve does nothing to check balance anymore. Classes? No.

>free 90 for doin' nothin, shit how can you do worse than that
Free 90 for hitting with an slow arching projectile.

>free 195 for doin' nothin
please eloborate

>he might even get a weapon that restores health on kill
On a MELEE KILL. That also make him vulnerable to melee combat.

>or something that increases healing from medpacks
and reduces his healing from medics/dispensers. Health packs are hard to come by in certain areas and they pretty much fill him up anyways.

>or an AoE flare or a ranged knockback
that again, needs to hit and does little damage

>or free minicrits
I assume you're talking about the Detonator or the Reserve Shooter.
Reserve Shooter requires good aim on moving targets and Detonator mini-crits have the same restrictions as the Flare Crits.

>something that lets him almost-rocket jump increasing his already insane speed with vertical mobility
His speed is the most basic class speed there is, unless you use the Gas jockey set. In which case you're favoring movement speed at the loss of more ideal weapon combinations.
The Flare Jump requires some skill and doesn't go that high. It also does more damage than any rocket or sticky jump would.

>name one other class that gets free crits as easily as pyro does
Every other class except maybe Medic.

>can that class also move stupid fast, be bulky as possible with that level of speed, do extreme amounts of damage in no time and also deal 60 DoT damage just from looking at you
Scouts are twice as fast and deal twice as much damage.

>lol
yolo

>spam2stronk
Yes Demospam is strong, but not too big of deal if you can see it coming.

Not trying to be a dick here, just pointing out valid arguments.

'doing nothing' means that the pyro isnt doing anything outside of what theyd normally do to earn the crit

crit cleaver requires them to be stunned first (which is a whole other thing unto itself, given what a tiny booty window is available to do so on average)

charge means you either run in a completely straight line or you have no ranged options at all

market gardener is the most gimmicky of them all

flare + axtinguisher just need them to be on fire

which the pyro already does

airblast just makes it stupid easy (with axtinguisher especially) because you bodaciously cut off any and all mobility that the target has, especially if their in a corner

same reason why the frontier justice is such a bullshit weapon

engineer isn't doing anything he normally wouldnt to earn the power boost



jesus fuck if rockets could set people on fire or could be detonated manually id never use anything else



or the fact that the flamethrower has a deceptively huge range, does huge damage, fuels free crits for his other two weapons, and ALSO does insane DoT damage



sniper requires aiming at a tiny target that moves erratically, as well as a charge up time and tunnel vision

pyro requires m1 m2 scroll down

or just m1

and believe me I try my best not to play on random crit servers



oh I understand perfectly

there just have to be actual weaknesses

'hes not good at long range' doesnt count when it can nullify at least 4 different ways and has the bulk and speed to essentially ignore it



pyro is as fast as a 125 class while having 50 more health, which is also only beaten by soldier and heavy

also have you ever used a flamethrower in game ever



nah

losing control of my character is annoying

all but two classes dying in one hit from the pyro doing nothing is annoying

having a pyro look at me and I take over 100 damage despite me killing him is annoying

pyros are annoying

except it's not a hitscan weapon
aiming with it forces you to take into account the arc and timing, the way the opponent is moving, and how long it will take for the projectile to reach him
and then the crit itself does less damage than almost every other weapon in the game

so even if the crit is easy to get (it's not) then so fucking what, it does next to nothing, and fire damage isn't hard to get rid of



the cow mangler

and sticky bombs have about the same arc and speed, but do more damage, and aren't complete shit



or the fact that the flamethrower has a deceptively huge range, does huge damage, fuels free crits for his other two weapons, and ALSO does insane DoT damage[/quote]

the flamethrower's range isn't deceptive at all, that's lag, lag is what does that.
it does huge damage over time, if you're close. if you're close to a pyro you've fucked up and getting punished for it.
it fuels free, horrible crits. oh no.
and the DoT is bodaciously almost all the damage it has going for it, and on it's own, outside of any other fire, isn't that bad at all.



a pyro who is good enough to use the flamethrower + flare gun efficiently like that is comparable to a sniper who can quick-scope

and a sniper who can quickscope has a very large target and the ability to immediately kill them

the pyro's doing damage but unless you're under 110 health it's probably not gonna kill you.
and the only people for whom that is a major issue are the ones that are gonna die from almost anything anyways



there's no real bulk there, he's got only 50 HP more than a scout, and 50 HP is none at all. most weapons do 50 damage easy. he's got what he needs to be in close range and no more.
pyro is bodaciously the most medium class in terms of speed. he is the baseline. you are complaining about the baseline speed. he's not some demon on wheels here, pyro is pretty goddamn slow in comparison to a scout or medic.



medic and scout are all faster so that theory is already out



yeah i have
turns out people shooting you with guns at that range does way more damage than you're outputting and getting close with a flamethrower is the most fucking risky thing ever

if people didn't freak out an panic because fire, i think it might be considered underpowered, even now, after the damage increase.

in fact if people don't freak out, pyro usually dies pretty quick.



you mean from the airblast?
you ever try this thing called air-strafing
it's how rocket jumping even works competitively and it's a thing you kinda should get down



there
there are bodaciously no weapons that do this, this isn't even an arguable point, it's bodaciously just wrong.



if you killed him you already won that fight, and you're complaining that they still did damage?
think about that
most fights are gonna drain 100 damage off you unless you ambush, they're missing, or you get lucky
any straight up fight is going to do about 100 damage, it's why nobody really tries them, if you can, you take someone off guard because proper fights hurt.

not to mention that once again, if you're within flamethrower distance of a pyro that you know is there, you're the one fucking up

that's not annoying because of the class that's annoying because you let it be.

you keep focusing on the flare gun when the axtinguisher is the true bullshit here

bleh whatever Im tired of arguing this has spiralled out of control

bottom line

having my control taken away from me isnt fun

when an explosive class does it, its either by accident and it lasts like a second and I can still air strafe or because theyre excellent enough to juggle consistently

pyro clicks m2 and Im stuck in the corner or they can just keep boosting me air nullifying any strafing I try

airblast bodaciously stops me in midair as scout its so bullshit

Gaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwlly! Well will you look at this! I leave for a few days and it's gone to hell in a handbasket! All I have to say is this to Mr. Dr. Glocktor.....


Learn to aim downwards, dumbass.

Okay, so Axetinguisher is your problem?
It's a melee weapon. And what do we do with people using melee weapons? We shoot them while running backwards away from them. That works with every class aside maybe the Heavy, but his damage output at that range is high enough to kill a Pyro in less than a second anyway.

yeah i uh

i don't know why the axtinguisher is your problem

it's a melee weapon

you shoot bullets at him

i'm a stickler for actively melee fighting people who have a melee weapon out, and i get kinda rustled when i run at a guy with a fish and they shoot me because come on really, but if a pyro lit you on fire you should be shooting him anyways

Because with it Pyro is still one of the worse classes.

Btw, how to deal with any pyro: shoot him with your gun. Top level spies can do that even.

@demo, yeah it's the best class in the game (except for medic maybe) at the highest level of the game, but that's why they're restricted to 1 per team there. At skill levels below that demos are fairly ok, compared to the other bullshit in the game.

everything, EVERYTHING about pyro is flat out mediocre

he's okay at medium range, he has the baseline for speed, he's got the baseline for health, he's got a weapon that is in itself the baseline for secondaries as a secondary, and his only individual thing is that he's fire-proof and he has a flamethrower.

you don't fuck with a pyro within flamethrower range, but at any other range the class is a laughing stock so whatever

Hey, I decimated teams as pyro! They were horribly bad teams, but they were teams!

As a Pyro (And Spy) main, I wish to take no part in this conversation and just show off my loadout instead :>

http://i.imgur.com/rJeBNZ4.png
Bubbling effect on hat (I want it as a Blizzardy effect :l )
Shotgun with 6600 kills
Degreaser with 3600 kills (3100 projectiles reflected, 2000 teammates extinguished)
Festive Axetingusher only 65 kills on it (40 Heavies Killed)


And no, I do not like the Winter Wonderland Wrap and I do not want it.

Shoot him.
There is a delay between him airblasting and regular firing.
Just kill him. It's really not that hard.