AWKWARD ZOMBIE

((This will get too confusing if I don't tell you their names: The girl in question is Maddie, her cousin is Lily, and her friend/Lily's girlfriend is Alicia.))

I've kind of been spreading my posts about this around the forum, but here's the gist of it -
I failed to recognize her emotions adequately. I knew she had emotions, of course, but I hadn't totally 'gotten' how I affected them? The relationship seemed to have been going well for a while, but I had frequent bouts of pity mongering. Though I recognized this was a thing I shouldn't do, I never realized why and never really made the effort to stop myself from doing it. I saw it as just being a way to ask her if she liked me, and I recognized that that was dishonest; what I didn't get was that it hurt her to see me hate myself. So for a sizable chunk of our relationship, I've been manipulating her emotions without realizing it? We talked a bit last night and sort of had this realization at the same time, and it changed my whole view of the situation and wow I was kind of terrible.
This also sort of contributed to the other, initial stated reason. We had been talking over the internet a lot, nearly every waking moment. She commented that it felt as though she lived with me, which I agree is too much. So yeah, wanting emotional space was definitely a part of that, but there's a lot of room to cut back on that while still being in a relationship.
She also mentioned that I've been clingy and that she felt like she was ignoring her other friends for me, but in this one case I think her perception was a bit skewed? Lily mentioned to me that she's been monopolizing a lot of Alicia's time, so Maddie hadn't had much of a chance to see her for a while? So I don't think the issue was so much that I was keeping her from seeing her friends but that her other two friends were hanging out just with each other a lot. As far as being clingy goes, she kept forgetting to ask her parents so I'd remind her every once in a while. I saw it more as a reminder, but from her side it seemed like I was begging and pleading and bothering her constantly to come over? She'd said she wanted to and kept assuring me that she planned to ask; she just never got around to it so I periodically asked her if she had yet.

So in summary:

Primary problem was that I didn't realize the affects my actions had on her emotions.
Initially stated problem was that we were spending way more time together than even a lot of married couples.
The problem that lit the fuse, so to speak, was that I had grown to seem clingy trying to remind her to ask her parents if she could visit.

Aside from this, things were actually going pretty well, I think? There was only one time during the relationship at which I got angry with her, when I invited her over and then didn't hear from her until 10 pm of the day I'd invited her for; I walked away from that understanding that I shouldn't have reacted so strongly and she walked away from it with a better understanding that it was important to communicate.

On the matter of my calling her my 'sort of girlfriend,' that was out of respect for some trepidation on her part. We both took the relationship pretty seriously, (definitely more than we should have) but she wasn't comfortable with making it official? She had told her parents that we were "more than friends," so that was how I considered it, but it made it difficult to discuss. I just figured 'kind of girlfriend' struck a pop flyin' middle ground between respectfulness and being understandable. We certainly cared a lot for each other, if that's what you mean. (Though my caring didn't really amount to much, regrettably.)


We're only teenagers, so I'm hesitant to say that she's my soul mate or 'the one' because that'd be really stupid, but I do think she's pretty special to me? We share a lot of interests and she's been helpful with a lot of things. We just sort of get along well and seemed to care about each other. Ours certainly wasn't like the stereotypical abusive relationship, where the abuser knows they're hurting the other but doesn't care; I cared a lot, I just never realized I was hurting her.


The thing about understanding is kind of why I think now would be an okay time for me to try again. Previously, I didn't understand what I'd done wrong, so I felt like I was the victim. There was a corner of my mind that knew I was probably in the wrong, but I couldn't accept that as I didn't know how that was true. As of last night, though, I understand what I did wrong and that it was much more significant than anything she did. I understand why she broke up with me, and honestly I even agree that she was right to. I haven't got any excuse for not realizing it all earlier, but I understand it now and I think that's a pretty good sign that I'll change for the better?
I'm not trying for the same relationship we had before. I recognize that we took things way too seriously and that was a bad thing. But I'd like a chance to try again, and hopefully have a proper, healthy relationship with her?


So yeah the basic summary is:
I was, above all, emotionally abusive. I didn't realize this, so I never stopped. Maddie was perfectly and completely justified in breaking up with me over this. I realize what I did wrong now, however, so I think that I would do much better given a second chance and I care about her enough to do so.

(Wow sorry this is a complete mess)

Well, I guess I'd just say...

Is this really for her? Or for you? Is there anything you can't prove to her as her good friend that you could prove as her boyfriend? And does she actually stand to gain anything from dating you again, or is this to prove to yourself that you're not as bad as you think you are?

My most recent relationship was with a good friend who also didn't listen to anything I said and repeatedly abused and went out of his way to irritate and upset me just because he liked the attention, good or bad. He didn't have any mature understanding of how upset he made me no matter how I reacted and no matter how many times I explicitly told him how he made me feel. I had to physically manhandle his hands away from me and half-shout STOP many times when he was jabbing me repeatedly in the sides or trying to squeeze or tickle me without my permission and despite me telling him explicitly to stop because I didn't like it every time prior to that point. As soon as I let go he'd go right back to doing it.

After I told him "we need to talk" he jumped the gun and broke up with me, then changed his mind and got so upset because I didn't answer his request to spend time together again immediately due to my phone dying for one day that he stalker'd up my good friend on Facebook, a person he didn't know, and wrote that person two pages of trash-talking that called me a gold digging whore and a horrible friend and person.

Later after I told him in depth for hours exactly where he went wrong (it took hours because he kept ignoring or overlooking things I said multiple times), he understood, and asked to date me again. Over and over, for hours, until I pointed out that there was nothing he could do to fix his mess as Tuxedo Mask that he couldn't do just as well as my friend. And we are still friends. Good ones, even.

I'm not saying you were like him (heavens no), but I am saying you might want to carefully consider who this is really for. Do you want to date her because you've genuinely changed already and know you won't hurt her again? Because you feel she wants you back? Or is it to prove something to yourself?

Yeah, I don't think I'm anything like the guy you described, fortunately.

I've always made sure to be completely respectful of Maddie's personal space. If I've done anything wrong in that area at all, it's been on the opposite side of the spectrum, with worrying that I'd gone too far after we spent a night cuddling on the couch. Idunno, I guess that might be a bad thing? Excessive worrying? She said it was fine and I stopped worrying, and I definitely didn't seem to have made her uncomfortable.

At one point previously she did say that we needed to talk and I did get really worried about it, but I didn't do anything hasty like break up with her. I was just worried the next day until we did talk it out and things were fine.
((This is one of the areas I wish she'd handled better when we broke up, since she wasn't willing to talk it out at all. I don't blame her, though, since the problem was pretty fundamental.))

And it isn't like I've been ignoring a bunch of signs that I've been making Maddie upset? She's not the best at communication, so it's really only come up once before that I remember. I misinterpreted the reason she was upset, though. ((My solution, to assure her I loved her, was kind of terrible too; I 'meant' it but didn't really understand what meaning it meant? I essentially used love as a band aid.)) I said this in my previous post, but I wasn't ignoring that I was hurting her? I just didn't notice, and I can't make as excuse for that but it is a thing that has changed.

The worst I've consistently done when she hasn't been available to chat has been to ask her sister what's up? Like if she isn't answering a message, I'll ask her sister if she's on the computer at the moment. I don't do it very often, though. Most recently was because I wasn't sure if a tumblr message had actually gone through, for example. (they often don't, apparently)

I'd never dream of abusing her in any way I recognize as abuse, be it physical harassment like poking or squeezing or what have you or emotional abuse like insulting her. I have abused her emotions, but that was unwittingly and I feel really awful about it and it's definitely on the list of things I have no intention to ever do.


To answer your question:
I suppose there is a part of me that wants to prove I can be less terrible, but I think I want to prove that to her just as much as to myself, if not more?
I don't think she actually wants me back, but she seemed to enjoy the good parts of what we had? And I know I enjoyed them? And if she's willing to have me back, I think I've learned enough that I could be much less terrible?
After our latest exchange, I know she doesn't hate me. I'm even pretty sure she believes me, despite all the history saying she shouldn't. If that all amounts to a second chance, I hope to make the most of it.


Ugh. If everything I'm saying is coming off as creepy or terrible or stalker-ish, please tell me. Don't sugarcoat it. If I'm still being a terrible person without realizing it, I want to know.

I wish you the best of luck, then! I just wanted you to make sure you knew why you wanted to try again rather than risk going into the idea with uncertain desires.

i think this person wants to date me but we live in seperate countries
england and wales, yes.

they got sinks in wales don't they

i think so

Is the other person a sheep? That would make total sense.

stop stalking me and my sheep

no but um they're really nice except maybe a bit clingy hmm but we're not dating or anything (although i know they wish we were. Not in a big headed way but they've suggested it, aha).

Is it cool to bump this thread? I kind of think it would make more sense to merge this with dating stories/progress, but nth threads have existed for a while so...

I've been talking with a girl a bit recently. We met on a dating site and made very loose plans to meet up sometime after winter break, since our colleges are so close to together.
I'm not sure if I'm causing issues by talking to her before then? Like if we're in constant contact obviously we'll run out of things to say, but I'd feel weird if we didn't talk at all leading up to a date. (Also I'm already a bit fond of her, so I want to talk)
Is it better to hold off? I don't want to come off as overbearing, but I also don't want to go silent for twenty days before meeting in person?

The complicating factor is that I'm not the type to form secure attachments at all - I doubt whether people like me constantly. I'm working on it, but in the meantime I'm worried that every time we have a chat I've made a mistake.

Edit: woah my breakdown over my first ex is still on this page. Did I kill this thread? That's going to reflect poorly in any response I get.

Let's put it this way: If she has no interest in talking to you and getting to know you outside of going on dates, then do you really want to bother? I'm sure if she's interested in you she won't mind conversing with you. If she does, I guess it just means she's not that interested, unfortunately.

Really though, if she wanted to go on a date with you, she probably won't mind chatting with you online a bit.

It might be odd to just start asking her about her day, but there's nothing wrong with casual conversation with someone you're planning to meet

Ceasing contact with her might cool things off and/or make her think you're disinterested. Say hi now and then.

Well, I find it really easy to make conversation with people. I usually just ask people questions, for example if I ask "whats your favorite video game?" and they answer "super metroid" I know nothing about metroid and so I ask them to tell me about it. If they say "The legend of Zelda" which is mine, we have plenty to talk about.
But I understand your concern of having run out of conversation starters, but consider this, let her start the conversation. Be a great listener and she'll enjoy you just as well if you were a great speaker.

today I spoke to this girl and my voice decided it wanted to be a muppet for some reason

is it a good idea to pretend to be a felt puppet to prolong the charade