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 Post subject: Re: The Current Events Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:07 pm 
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Voting day isn't a national holiday, for some reason, so there's a lot of cases where people have to decide between their job or the future of their country.

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 Post subject: Re: The Current Events Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:44 pm 
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And you can't vote outside normal working hours? That's retarded.


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 Post subject: Re: The Current Events Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:17 pm 
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Sir Real wrote:
Well, if they couldn't, then that's completely different. I'm just talking about people who chose not to vote.

D-vid wrote:
You're in a position to complain if you were not okay with any of the options given, which a lot of people are.

That's no excuse. I didn't like any of the options either. At least I actually went out there and did what I could to prevent Trump from getting elected instead of refusing to do anything like a petulant brat.

There's people who think they're all equally bad choices.

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 Post subject: Re: The Current Events Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:39 pm 
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Syobon wrote:
And you can't vote outside normal working hours? That's retarded.

It depends on the state and possibly the county. Some states you can just mail your ballot in a couple days ahead of time, others you have to show up in person with a wide range of hours, and a few of them only let you squeak in on the 9-5 hours.


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 Post subject: Re: The Current Events Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:33 pm 
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Riku wrote:
Syobon wrote:
And you can't vote outside normal working hours? That's retarded.

It depends on the state and possibly the county. Some states you can just mail your ballot in a couple days ahead of time, others you have to show up in person with a wide range of hours, and a few of them only let you squeak in on the 9-5 hours.

I thought the minimum time polls could be open was 8-7 and certain states could extend to 9.

I've never heard of polls closing at 5pm.

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 Post subject: Re: The Current Events Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:37 pm 
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It depends on where you are, but many states offer paid time off to vote
http://www.findlaw.com/voting-rights-law.html

Also, 6pm is the earliest polls should have closed in the US.
https://ballotpedia.org/State_Poll_Open ... imes_(2016)

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 Post subject: Re: The Current Events Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:42 pm 
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Yeah that's what I meant. Here in France every time we vote it's on a Sunday, and polling places are opened for a long time. I think it's outrageous that voting days aren't a holiday.

But I also meant that many polling places were closed for the 2016 election, meaning some people didn't have a polling place near them anymore; they cut back on early voting days and hours; and they passed overtly racist voter ID laws made to target (among others) black and brown voters and make voting harder for them. All decisions taken by local governments or the state, with no way for the federal government to reverse the decision since the supreme court struck down part of the Voting Rights Act a few years back that allowed there to be some kind of control over these actions.

I don't think anybody can for sure say that these decisions had a significant impact came election day, but they're definitely gross, obviously discriminatory, and at the opposite of what voting should ideally be: easy for everyone.


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 Post subject: Re: The Current Events Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:04 pm 
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From what I understand, that was mainly the case in the south, especially in North Carolina.

D-vid wrote:
There's people who think they're all equally bad choices.

Yeah, we call those people idiots.
"Okay, so this one candidate has zero experience, is supported by literal neo-Nazis, is facing trials for fraud and rape, and his election would endanger every marginalized group in America…but the other one had a private email server. How can I choose?!"

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 Post subject: Re: The Current Events Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:19 pm 
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Sir Real wrote:
D-vid wrote:
There's people who think they're all equally bad choices.

Yeah, we call those people idiots.
"Okay, so this one candidate has zero experience, is supported by literal neo-Nazis, is facing trials for fraud and rape, and his election would endanger every marginalized group in America…but the other one had a private email server. How can I choose?!"

I wouldn't go that far at all. People are entitled to vote for whoever they choose or abstain from voting if they feel that's right.

The issue becomes the people protesting or who are mad about the election results because had they have known that Trump had a chance, they would have voted for Hillary. Or the people who would have abstained anyways but are mad at other people for not pulling their weight.

Also doesn't mean you can't be disappointed or upset with people for their choice of vote (I'm sure we all have plenty of those people in our personal lives), but it's their vote.

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 Post subject: Re: The Current Events Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:50 am 
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Sir Real wrote:
but the other one had a private email server.

If you still believe that was the only problem with Hillary, you will never understand why she lost the election.


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 Post subject: Re: The Current Events Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:13 am 
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Syobon wrote:
Sir Real wrote:
but the other one had a private email server.

If you still believe that was the only problem with Hillary, you will never understand why she lost the election.

The American public barely got to hear anything besides emails, not even policies or past public record on anything besides "stood by her cheating husband", and stuff about Benghazi coming up that people were still confused about

This was the worst election cycle for discussing policy.

so yes, to a lot of people Hillary's big main glowing problem that they were constantly being told was the biggest deal by the media was e-mails.

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 Post subject: Re: The Current Events Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:22 am 
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No, that's not her only problem. I'm well aware that there were a whole host of other problems with Clinton; it's just that none of those things make her as bad as or worse than Trump, and anyone who thinks that they do is a moron. And I know there were numerous reasons why she lost. There's the archaic and disastrous electoral college. There's the way the media normalized and sensationalized Trump and focused way too much on Clinton's scandals (none of which really went anywhere). There's her lack of transparency and how the primaries destroyed any trust a lot of people had in her and the Democrats. And of course, there's the willful ignorance and lack of empathy found in so many Americans.

Also: what Kamak said.

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 Post subject: Re: The Current Events Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:54 am 
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it's just that none of those things make her as bad as or worse than Trump,


I agree with you on that. But your attitude of consistently insulting and demonising the opposing party does nothing to improve the situation. It only serves to further antogonise and rile them up. The thing about Trump's movement is that it's mostly a contrarian movement. As you said, this election wasn't fought on policy (which is a terrible thing of course), a lot of Trump's supporters aren't unified on any particular set of goals. They are just fed up. They are sick of the current political climate and they are sick of the mainstream media's inability to bring unbiased news (although for a lot of them it's more about the news not agreeing with their biases).

In response to this movement, the Democratic party and it's supporters had adapted the same attitude you've displayed here. They only added more oil to the fire by portraying and generalising Trump supporters (and even any one who spoke against Hillary at point) as misogynistic, racist, homophobic,... The harder you push against it, the harder a contrarian movement is going to push back.

I think this is the main reason why the Democrats lost the election.


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 Post subject: Re: The Current Events Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:20 pm 
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Syobon wrote:
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it's just that none of those things make her as bad as or worse than Trump,


I agree with you on that. But your attitude of consistently insulting and demonising the opposing party does nothing to improve the situation. It only serves to further antogonise and rile them up. The thing about Trump's movement is that it's mostly a contrarian movement. As you said, this election wasn't fought on policy (which is a terrible thing of course), a lot of Trump's supporters aren't unified on any particular set of goals. They are just fed up. They are sick of the current political climate and they are sick of the mainstream media's inability to bring unbiased news (although for a lot of them it's more about the news not agreeing with their biases).

In response to this movement, the Democratic party and it's supporters had adapted the same attitude you've displayed here. They only added more oil to the fire by portraying and generalising Trump supporters (and even any one who spoke against Hillary at point) as misogynistic, racist, homophobic,... The harder you push against it, the harder a contrarian movement is going to push back.

I think this is the main reason why the Democrats lost the election.



I agree with this 100%


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 Post subject: Re: The Current Events Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:55 pm 
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So they're sad that people are being mean to them just because they constantly shit on women, the poor, minorities, and anyone who acknowledges that something should be done about climate change? Poor babies.

Look, I get what you're saying. I think about that thing every day. Usually when someone confronts me with an opposing viewpoint on something, I try to get through to them in a courteous way. But in my experience, these people do not listen and do not learn. Arguing with them really feels like a no-win scenario. If you approach them aggressively, then like you said, they push back harder. They become more defensive and more stubbornly adherent to their dangerous views. On the other hand, if you try treating them with the respect they don't deserve, then they just feel like you're weak and they're powerful and feel vindicated.

I get that a lot of people have been very aggressive in their confrontation of Trump supporters, maybe even too aggressive. But if the people who ended up voting for Trump had actually cared about people other than themselves or at least tried to listen to their opponents and consider their points instead of just reacting indignantly, then maybe the other side wouldn't have gotten angry in the first place. They have nothing to blame the results of this election on but their own stubbornness and stupidity.

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