AWKWARD ZOMBIE

I agree with noffletoff. Except for the wall thing. I think a physical wall is a stupid idea.

I think it's a good idea, a physical wall is more of a deterrent, and it makes it harder / takes more time to get passed, allowing border guards to act.

Thanks.
Some of those are only allegations though. I agree that those are concerning, but I still cannot fathom how anyone in their right mind could honestly say this puts her on the same level as Trump unless they are either huge misogynists or huge racists or both.
There's a difference between saying "Hey we should do something about our illegal immigration problem" and "All Mexicans are rapists".

I disagree. I think the USA has always put themselves waaay before anyone else to a disgusting point. Sinking an absurd proportion of the economy into imperialism the military to the detriment of everything else is the cause of the US debt and sinking more into it is not going to help.
Can you give more specifics about how "Obamacare" is bad? Lots of people live a better life thanks to it. If anything it should have gone further and be an actual universal healthcare system like Canada's or bodaciously any other developed country's. Is it bad because working class people don't have to choose between being sick and being dirt poor anymore?
How about that list I came up with? How can you say we have not seen anything "evil" coming from Trump yet? Are your only sources of info 4chan and alt-right sites? Does your definition of "evil" exclude white supremacy, sexism, sexual assault, fraud and war crimes, or do you simply choose to ignore that part?

I'd say this has more to do with the leaders of the Liberal Party having negative charisma at the time (and people still remembering how corrupt they are) and people being too insecure and self-indulgent to go NDP and have real change. I know people who vote(d) Conservative because somehow they thought that would lead to more security.

Ah well, it's because they are awful in different ways. In my opinion, starting unnecessary wars, killing thousands if not millions of innocent civilians and destabilizing entire regions for decades is worse than openly being a racist. Of course, it's possible Trump will do the same thing, although I think at some point he did declare they should move out of Afghanistan (though I'm not even sure that's a good idea atm).

I can understand where you're coming from saying Hillary is not as bad a person as Trump (though she's certainly no Miss Daisy), but that doesn't make her a good president.

Obamacare has certainly had some problems, but not perfect ≠ "a disaster."


Thing is, Trump would clearly be extremely dangerous in charge of the military. He's already advocated torture and murdering terrorists' families, and he's stated that he would somehow force military higher-ups to do as he says. He's also made it clear that he won't accept Clinton's victory, throwing the very concept of democracy under the bus. And let's not forget his quotes about nuclear weapons. And yes, I do believe racism and sexism make him unfit to serve as president. On top of that, the thought of a Trump presidency terrifies me as a supporter of LGBT+ rights, since not only does he not seem to know anything about LGBT+ issues (what with that "hateful foreign ideology" bullshit), he's chosen Mike Pence of all people as his running mate. On top of that, with him in the Oval Office, we could very well have to worry about having both a Republican president and a Republican congress (I'm fairly confident the Democrats will win the White House, but I'm not so sure about the HoR or the Senate). Plus, we've got the Supreme Court to worry about.


Have you ever considered for a moment just how expensive that wall would be? If it's just 35 feet high, it would still cost $16+ billion to build. Making new roads so that construction vehicles can actually get to construction sites would cost an additional ~$2 billion. And then you've got a ton more cheddar to consider for engineering, design, and management, plus maintenance costs would exceed the construction costs in about 7 years. On top of that, a border wall would do next to nothing to lower illegal immigration, since a huge portion of the people who are here illegally are just folks whose visas have expired and people will always find ways around, under, or over the wall, no matter how penis-compensatingly large it is. The wall would be a complete waste of time and cheddar, all to falsely assuage the worries of a bunch of paranoid, xenophobic pissbabies.

Watch it...We're getting into that "even if I at least partially agree with you, you need to cool it" territory. Aimed at anyone. Although to reiterate what Dark said, regardless of who gets in, they will probably only have access to 5% of whatever projects they even wanted to START over four years, because at least 70% of congress hates each candidate (or both, as the math would imply). Checks and balances, yo. And as someone who is not fond of either candidate for differing reasons, I will never have been so thankful for Congress' ability to make like Ron Swanson and "work all day if it means nothing gets done."

Well the US does that any way and is going to continue to do that in the foreseeable future. I also don't believe Hillary would bring any change into that. I do agree with your other points though. If it wasn't clear yet, I do think Clinton is the lesser of two evils.

I dunno, I don't see how Clinton could be the lesser of the two evils, I mean, she has done a lot of terrible things and they can all be confirmed by Wikileaks, Trump just has a stubborn attitude and runs his mouth.

As for the wall, remember that Mexico is paying for it

Most illegal immigrants arrive in the country via plane.

Donald Trump is a horrible human being and if you support him you are an enabler of that, and that makes you a horrible human being as well. There's really no way to deny that. All of his campaign promises are either: A. Stupid, or B. Actively go against human rights.
Every bad thing about him that's become widely reported on is from video of him doing or saying those things.
If you try and assuage his and your awfulness, you're just showing how little you care about your fellow human beings. People in poverty in war-torn countries, nonwhite people, LGBT people, poor people in the US, middle class Americans, the whole international community, everyone but Donald Trump basically.

That is scummy. It makes you scum. I cannot believe this forum is actually allowing people to "politely" argue for this hateful bigoted disaster of a man.

iirc only something like 35% of the country voted in that election. but I could be wrong. I wasnt old enough to vote at that time, which is why I voted in the election last year.

that post was more of a point of If you dont vote you end up with something you're probably not gonna like.
The only way to change shit like that is to vote, not the opposite. :0



People are allowed to have opinions even if they dont align with your beleifs. That's what free speecs is, Malum. No one here is outright attacking anyone for that considering this is exactly what the current events topic is for.
We're having a discussion right now outlining why we think Trump is a terrible canidate to run a country. in my honest OPINION (o no those exist) The only post directly attacking people here is yours.

but like I said.

OPINION

So apparently the FBI is reopening the email case against Hillary Clinton, I'm guessing it probably has to do with the wikileaks.

Hey memers and dreamers, I'm Raimu, how ya doin'?

I'm new here, I got linked to this tread, decided to post because ya' know, this current presidential election triggers me like no other.

Now, personally I'm Canadian, but if I were American I'd probably abstain from voting tbh. Because this election is a massive shitshow and every candidate is cancerous. Hillary is corrupt, Trump is an idiot, even Jill Stein is kind of a crazy science denier and Gary Johnson or whatever is bland and weak... not that either of them have a chance anyway. If a gun was to my head, I'd vote Hillary because... you know.. status quo.

But okay, I'll talk about some things specifically here.



This entire post is emblematic of the entire extreme left. (I consider myself left-leaning, but I've recently realized I'm more of a left-centrist.) It's nothing but a vapid appeal to emotion, it's a call for censorship of ideas that disagree with their own, it's a hyperbolic attempt to strawman demonize anyone who disagrees, it's a fallacy of association, it's intellectually bankrupt and it's no more intelligent than anything that Trump says or does.

I'm not going to psycho-analyze on the internet, that's stupid, but, this tactic of taking the worst possible meaning of anything anybody who differs from you ideologically says is generally a way to make yourself feel superior to whoever you're talking to. It's incredibly closed-minded and shows you don't really care what other people think or why they think that way.

Donald Trump is a profoundly stupid human being, the way he talks about things, his temperament, his simplistic ideas, all of these things indicate that there isn't much intellect behind the man. The people he's associated himself with, especially Mike Pence (who is a regressive, anti-science, anti-education young earth creationist) are also deeply troubling.

That being said, the appeal of Trump should be obvious, he's a wrecking ball in the obviously broken political system. He's rustled the jimmies of some very powerful people who have had way too much control in politics for way too long. Yes, there are actual racists and homophopes, delusional conspiracy idiots etc. that will be voting for Trump, a quick browse through twitter will demonstrate this. But this doesn't mean all people who are voting for Trump feel the same way, some vote out of a (imo misguided) hope that he'll change the system.

Two links I highly recommend on the topic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity - If you want to be open minded, if you want to learn how, what and why people think, remember to use this instead of looking for the worst possible application of something said. This doesn't just apply to Trump and his supporters, this should be applied to all interactions in life.

And this one is a bit more personal. I find Sam Harris' views on Donald Trump very, very similar to my own. If you want to hear somebody far more articulate and intelligent then myself summarize Donald Trump, this is a great (albeit kinda long) listen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az1JyDJ_iKU


Anyway, didn't mean for my first post to be so... "intense" I'm generally a pretty laid back guy, really But the constant rhetoric (from both sides) in this election has made me kinda mad haha.

So, Raimu. Strong opener. It's all downhill from here.

Welcome to hell