AWKWARD ZOMBIE

You're 100% right. I'm part of a minority. Our community is in need of a dialogue, but god forbid anyone mention that we have problems.

Thing is, the romani ARE in large part responsible for the shitty reputation they have. The problem is that they have been driven to this kind of behavior by being forced into a vagabond culture in the first place, and now they dont want to let go of what they consider their culture. So the question is, do we deal with the problem we have right now, or the problem that caused it? Because no matter what you pick, someone is going to get hurt.

Is that true though? I haven't been able to find many sources that go that far back in Romani history. Don't forget that humans started out nomadic and that there are still plenty voluntarily nomadic people out there (Tibet, Mongolia, Nigeria,...).

Good idea! You wanna just force muslims to live in ghettos and wear little patches with a crescent moon on it too?

Ah, a comparison to Nazi Germany already.

You just showed that you hadn't read any of it.

I really cant think of a better comparison when the argument appears to boil down to "Muslims have to be isolated and kept away from Europe at all costs to preserve the purity of our society".

Well... I highly agree with the first post. I couldn't give a rats booty about the second one. What religion/culture people come from doesn't matter all that much to me, but the economic impact is already becoming close to unbearable. Especially as growth rates are lowering across Europe. Norway has to discuss tightening the budget for the first time in decades. Adding economic burdens is not the solution to such a problem.

I agree that immigration needs a reform, and there is definetly an economic drawback to all of this. What I dont agree with is the idea that islam is a scourge on western society. I dont particularly like islam, anymore than I like christianity or anything else, and these articles are correct in some of the points they make, but putting the whole blame on one group of people has never been a solution before, and its not a solution now. In fact, it arguably makes it worse, since its just a kneejerk reaction people have so they can target someone lower on the social ladder than them, rather than placing the blame with the politicians, banks and corporations that put us in this economic quagmire in the first place. The enclaves of unintergrated, disenfranchised muslims is a big problem, but not one that should be placed on the immigrants themselves. Its the goverments failed intergration policies and insistance on using these communities as dumping grounds for immigrants that creates a hostile environment. Shockingly, people tend to get somewhat frustrated when they're trapped in what is essentially modern ghettos with no future, no cheddar and no hope, and the privilege of being the current scapegoat for all the worlds social ills. Now, are they completely blameless? No, they bring a lot of their old attitudes with them, but they arent the real problem. But sure, its always easier to just demand that they all be kept out than actually looking where the real blame lies.

I'm not interested in finding out who to blame. I'm interested in finding out how to solve the issue. Assuming the article stating that there are 55 "no go" zones in Sweden is correct. How do you fix this issue? Continuing on the current path hasn't helped. It has created the problem, so how do you deal?

Isolationist policies aren't a bad thing. Immigration is only a good thing as long as it serves a positive on your economy. There are valid arguments now that immigration is contributing to the problem, so closing borders should be a topic worthy of discussion.

You could make that argument, from a purely economical standpoint, but a lot of Swedes see it as a moral issue as well, since people dont exactly try to come to the West because they want a change of scenery. You can take the economic drawbacks, or you can send people off to die. Its not a choice most people are comfortable making, even if you kinda have to make that choice every time you buy stuff in the modern economy. As for solutions, its as I stated, more effort has to be put into intergrating immigrants and not just dumping them in isolated enclaves. That means incentives to learn the language, work training if needed depending on education level, which has been halfhearted at best. As for the no go zones, I've never actually heard of any of those, the only one I know of thats even mildly dangerous is the one in Malmö.

You call American immigration successfull? They have an invisible exploited underclass being used for slave labor by unscrupulous business owners and private citizens alike. Hardline policies didnt make things better, it just made it worse for the people who were already vulnerable.

Immigration only has its intended effects during economic booms, filling up unmanned jobs, which isnt going to happen again for some time. So yeah, you could make an economic argument for cutting immigration dead off, but that would also be a death sentence for thousands of people.

I dont know about Canada, but the US and Australia have ATROCIOUS immigration systems and treat immigrants like subhuman cattle. Have you seen the internment camps the Astralians put them in? Its like they try to torture them to make them give up.

delete: why do I post in this thread when I always end up regretting it within 24 hours