AWKWARD ZOMBIE

Well, when I was a kid I used to pretend I was a fox.
a starfox

So, I think it's a bit disrespectful for these weird people to pretend to have phantom limbs when they're perfectly fine, and that if they are disrespecting people who have lost limbs and have phantom limbs, then their beliefs aren't worthy of respect.

Huh. Knowing how phantom limbs actually work makes it much more difficult to believe otherkin who say they have them.


Ah, sorry. When I said "douchebags" I was referring specifically to the ones Cori mentioned, who got annoyed when people bumped into their wings.

That's still no justification for discussing this so singlemindedly here. This is a thread for debate - the discussion currently happening is unanimous and (from most posters) malicious.

Sorry to be late to the party, but I agree with YCobb. Not liking the actions of some people doesn't mean you're free to shit on them. It's vile and disgusting.

Really they're just a minority of a minority of a minority. A really stupid minority. But this discussion won't really progress any further so we probably move on.

I myself don't really have the time to spend scouring the internet for the commentary of these lost souls to engage in some cheap thrills at their expense - so I don't know how deluded some of these people really are. I'm with people on the phantom limb thing - I agree that's taking a personal fantasy too far.

I actually saw the discussion in this thread a few days ago and spent about an hour typing up a defense of otherkin and their admittedly oddball exploration of self-identity. However the forum auto-logged me out before I got the chance to post it so my rant was scattered forever to the electrons of the internet - perhaps this was for the best.

Though I feel I myself have come close to being an 'otherkin' in the past, I've also become tired of sticking my neck out to defend them - so I'm glad Ycobb spoke up in my apathetic absence. However for people to come to the 'snap conclusion' that otherkin are "Only looking for attention." or sympathy because "No one could possibly ever really believe that they are x/y/z trapped in a human body." is more than disappointing.

This is an oversimplification in the extreme.

People explore their self-identity and relationship towards other people differently. Sometimes people become so disenchanted with other people and feel so disjointed from human society that they build new identities that exist outside of the norm - this is something that I myself have gone through and I can definitely say that it was nothing to do with wanting attention - but more to do with finding a way to understand myself and the kind of relationship I wanted to have with other people (if I wanted a relationship with other people at all).

Rather than exploring my self-identity in regard to animal personas I personally became more convinced that I was a machine, monster or otherworldly being; Though I have now moved on from this period of self-exploration and become more comfortable with my humanity (in my own way), the residual after effects of those explorations of myself will always be with me - and I'm sure they make me a better person for the long haul - if only in regard to my creativity.


I'll put a different spin on what Ycobb had to offer:

Be excellent to each other.

Okay, no, sorry, but I disagree, there HAS to be a limit somewhere. I get that everyone has the right to think whatever they want about identity, but when someone says, completely serious, that they are something other than human, and then expect me to communicate with them with that in mind? No, there's a line, and when they then say that its the same kind of thing REAL minorities face, thats not just delusional anymore, its flat out offensive. It cheapens the real prejudice people face every day. Yes, I get that some people actually really do belive that they are some other being trapped in a human body, but just because its real to you, doesnt mean its real to the rest of the world. Its not the same as transgender either

Nothing wrong with being excellent to each other.

Sure, but does being excellent mean you cant disagree?

I never stated that it's the same as the 'real prejudice' people face everyday - you've imbued the sentiment of my comment with baggage you've picked up somewhere else.

If otherkin go off on one about prejudice then they're striking out at the world they're already having difficulty coming to terms with - and when people talk about them like some of the AZers here have been it only reinforces the view they have of other people and how they themselves don't belong in 'normal society'.

Everybody has to figure out who they are and how they face up to the harsh realities of the world in their own way - building up a fantasy 'otherkin' persona can be a bridge for someone to do that - it's a way of going against the grain and saying: "I don't accept all this crap that everyone is trying to tell me about who I ought to be and how I should live my life - this is my life and I'm making up my own rules!"

I eventually figured out for myself that's what I was doing by building up my machine/monster/otherworld personas - and instead turned that back on its head by saying "So I am a human - but I define for myself what it means to be human - no-one else will do that for me!"

So you have to allow for people to go through these phases to better figure out who they are and what they're trying to say - for a lot of people it's not mere self-delusion - it's an important stepping stone in figuring out who they are and what they have to say to the world. To deny them that would be stunting their development as a person (as 'retarded' as being an otherkin may appear to a lot of people).



I didn't say that either.

What I am saying is, that it's important to allow people to explore their identity however they feel they need to - so long as they are not causing direct or long-term harm to themselves or anybody else.

Otherkin are not really that big of a deal when you sit down and think about it - why get yourself so upset or angry about these people who have got themselves so caught up in a little bit of fantasy? However it does reflect badly on those who take the piss out of these people who have gotten a little off-track on figuring out who they are - isn't that the basis of all forms of prejudice?

It becomes socially unacceptable for people to single out one form of deviancy for piss-taking, so they move onto another - the sentiment often staying the same, regardless of the target.

Yeah, okay, tell them when they've gone too far - but you'll only be met with resistance because they'll see you as just another person kicking them down and telling them how they should live their life.



I'm not sure what that even means because everybody perceives themselves and the world in a different way.

If you're saying that otherkin shouldn't expect other people to agree that they are x/y/z trapped in a human body or sympathise with them in that regard then I suppose I should agree?

I would hope that people learn to see through the 'otherkin' smokescreen and realise that a person in that position is trying to figure themselves out - albeit in a wacky 'way, way, out there' fashion.

When you get down to it, the definition of what a 'human being' is differs from person to person anyway. Some people argue that it's your DNA that makes you a human being - others argue it's the way that you perceive yourself, the world and your place in it.

How can I as a human being perceive myself through anyone else's eyes? The only perception I can be certain of is my own - the only definition of what 'I' am that really matters to me is the one I have built up throughout my own life time - I can't control how other people see me no matter how hard I might try. I can dress differently or pierce my nose or shave my head - but no two people are going to react to me in the same way.

Is it important that other people accept me or the way I live my life? I personally have come to the realisation that I don't give a damn about what other people think and I don't need them to accept me or prop me up - but I've only come to that conclusion by seeing my own delusions through to their end.

I absolutely agree. There are no acceptable targets.

DnD, you brought up something in regards to otherkin that I've actually been wondering about for a while, specifically as it applies to similar (though in no way equatable) identities.

I apologize if this offends any trans* person here, because I perfectly understand why it would. My view on trans* stuff is that if a person is trans*, then they're trans. Your choice and all that. However, I have to wonder exactly why it happens.
I'm not a spiritual person; even if I was, I wouldn't believe in inherently gendered souls. I believe gender to be entirely derived from biology and experiences. This occasionally forces me to wonder if trans* persons are necessarily the other gender, like they feel, or if they just want to be treated te way the other gender is?

I don't mean to lend any agreement to MRA arguments, but men do have some specific disadvantages (child custody, a lack of sympathy in society for weakness, etc) and women obviously have loads of 'em; so a person of either gender could feel out of place because of their own disadvantages.

I guess I'm just pondering how gender applies to trans* stuff when treated as an abstraction? Because gender is a social construct, I have to wonder how intrinsic a specific gender can be to a person.

Apologies again if I cause any offense. I don't mean to invalidate anyone's identity or experiences, I'm just pondering causes.

Gender roles are a social construct. Gender/Gender Identity is not a social construct. Gender identity is defined by the brain, there are documented differences in the brains of cisgender and transgender people.
Trans people are mentally the opposite sex.

So, what is a cis exactly? Is it like a eunuch?

Cisgender = Your gender matches your sex.