AWKWARD ZOMBIE

It's usually what Lotharu said.

Littering is a huge issue with "protests". The occupy movement left Central Park a disaster area. Then there was the other stuff, like destruction of public property just by being one place for days or weeks, public indecency, vagrancy, drug use, etc.

In some cases it might also be a few idiots ruining it for everybody else.

Wasn't sure where to say this, but, does someone really have depression if they talk about it all the time, and continuously say they never had friends (till now), and always mention they have no future?

I doubt it, that sounds more like someone with really shitty self esteem fishing for compliments. The word "depression" has been watered down to "some days I feel sort of sad".

That's not necessarily true. I've had clinical depression since toddlerhood, and I used to be like that. I actually didn't have any friends that didn't steal from me or beat me up in front of other people until middle school, and that lasted a short but very enjoyable time until they moved on. Then in high school I had friends sophomore year for a few months, but then the group broke apart. I'm not talking about people who behaved in polite or friendly ways toward me; a lot of people were very polite to me in high school, at least. I mean people who were interested in spending non-necessary time around me (not partnered up for a class assignment, not excluded from their usual lunch table, etc.) We're talking locally, I mean.

Currently, I have exactly one "local" friend, an ex who lives over an hour away.

The thing to keep in mind about depression is that it's not just "I feel sad a bloo bloo." People suffering from it are often physically incapable of optimism because of the way their brain produces chemicals. You don't get to just decide what your feelings are; you only get to decide how you act upon them, and even then, it's debatable to what degree full control is possible because of the way chemical emotions alter the patterns of the brain. It's not a matter of willpower, laziness or pessimism for attention. They just can't. My parents get angry at me a lot and claim that I purposely choose to remember only miserable things from my childhood as a slur against them, but the fact is, people who suffer or have suffered from depression have the opposite of "rose tinted glasses," and it's not intentional.

That said, do people sometimes use the label of "depression" as a "get out of selfishness free" card? Sure. They do it with "autism" and "bi polar," too. But it's a horrible and hurtful mistake to a) assume anyone who seems "too negative" is faking, and b) to extend that suspicion to anyone claiming depression. The other thing not to assume is that just because a person is capable of experiencing happiness during moments of excitement or fun that they cannot be depressed. Depression doesn't mean you're NEVER pop flyin'; it's often characterized by the default emotion when nothing is going on changing from "okay" to "powerfully unhappy," lethargy, a feeling of malaise, and a great deal of difficulty trying to do anything at all, including things you traditionally enjoy. There was a period recently when I was barely posting, and this is related to that.

Even if they do have "shitty self-esteem," that's not something to be ridiculed for. Low self-esteem and issues like depression and anxiety often go hand-in-hand and fuel one another. It's painful, it's miserable, and having others approach your problem from the point of view of "why don't you just quit sucking/be pop flyin' for once" only drives home the point of "there is something wrong with you, you are inferior," both because they are being blamed for something they can't control and because they are unable to "just get over it" and feel they have now failed yet again and that it's their fault they can't feel pop flyin' more than temporarily.

Wry is exactly right. Sometimes, not always, but sometimes it's good to give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to depression or low self esteem. It's true that some people misappropriate the label all the time or self-diagnose in a misguided way, but it's better to take someone at face value if they say they suffer from depression or any other type of ailment. That doesn't mean you are required to take depression or low self esteem as suitable excuses for someone's shortcomings as a person, or let slide any unsavory behavior based on their personal problems. Even people suffering from such things are responsible for their actions.

In the long run though, I think believing someone claiming to suffer from depression when it turns out that they do not is better than the alternative of being skeptical towards a person who actually really needs help and support, if that makes sense.

There was a really, really good post I read somewhere, maybe on cracked, that made the point that when people try to say "Oh, you shouldn't believe them, they're just tricking you", the only logical answer is "Why would that ever reflect badly on me? In a million, million years, why would giving another person the benefit of the doubt and extending them compassion ever seem like a foolish thing, even if you find out their problems weren't as 'bad' as you thought? If they're claiming it, they probably have something wrong going on in their lives anyway. That's the point. They want or need the attention to feel better about themselves."

That ALSO said? Sometimes, yeah, it's very plain that someone is trying to execute an insultingly crude caricature of what they perceive a disorder to be like. I knew a girl a few years ago who would get online and say things like "*CRAI CRAI* EVA-01 just dieded! sob, sniff!", including the asterisks actions and contrived boo-hoo noises, but when asked what the cause of death was, how they were handling it, when the wake was going to be, or any information at all about said "gf," they would just go "idk, lol. i'm really sad though!"

But again, unless they're being abusive to others due to their problem, or it's something like that I just typed, it's really, really better to just be as compassionate as you can, because you can't know. If you were "tricked", you were still being a good person and the other party obviously felt they needed the attention for some reason. If not, you're still being a good person.

I understand what you're saying, and though you're right about it not reflecting badly on me, is it possible to try and help too much? Like, I know I'd find myself hours trying to comfort a depressed friend. I guess I need to get the mentality of them feeling automatically better, but does that also mean that I try too hard to help them? And even if they're not faking, and it's important to listen and be compassionate, if they bring it up every single moment when things are pop flyin' and all right what do we do? Listen to their problems again and again? Ignore them? Try and get them to concentrate on what we're doing to momentarily forget how hard their past was?

Though I liked what you said here:

It made me feel bad because I remember the times I try and tell them to "just get over it". But most of those times it's because I'm trying to help someone else or do some other important thing. Although, I do realize what it's like to have their feelings sort of cast aside.

Hey, it's okay. That was more directed to Stranger than you, but I'm glad you've reflected on it a little? Everyone has times where they just can't afford to prioritize one person over another, and it can be really, really hard to deal with a friend who has constant problems. I know what you mean, and I've had experiences like it, too. If it's getting to a point where their feelings are becoming unmanageable and taking up most or all of your interaction with them, it may be time to try to explain to them that you do care about them a lot and of course you're pop flyin' to help, but that it would be a good idea for them to find other ways to cope in addition to speaking with you. You might also point out that while bottling emotions is a bad idea and can hurt a lot, venting every time there's a problem actually makes it harder to cope when an outlet isn't immediately available and lessens your ability to manage problems yourself because you fall out of practice. It's a really hard, delicate balance.

If you're spending hours trying to help someone whose problems don't appear to be impacted by it, and it's beginning to tell on you, that's not good. It's... really, really hard to tell someone that they need to find other coping mechanisms, such as taking time out to get a drink and asking whether the problem will still be hurting them tomorrow or if it's a right-now thing, but the alternative entails you hurting yourself.

Yeah I have seen examples of that same exact scenario many many times (as have most people I'm sure) and I personally think it's easy enough to tell when someone is fishing for pity or being an idiot and overblowing their problems by labeling themselves as depressed without understanding the consequences of doing tht for both themselves and those ACTUALLY suffering from legitimate depression, or any other type of disorder.

And of course there are much more difficult to gauge situations where it's hard to tell if someone is being serious, or exaggerating their mental state. In those cases, yeah, I think it is much better to air on the side of caution and give them the benefit of the doubt.

There really is an overwhelming problem these days of people's misconceptions about mental illness. It goes both ways in many cases; either there are people understating it's effects and casting suspicion and skepticism on the severity of the problems, or people using it almost as a scapegoat or excuse without realizing that they jeopardize not only their own legitimacy, but the legitimacy of others suffering from mental illness. There really needs to be a more open dialogue amongst people in general about the role that mental illness can play in the lives of everyone, even people not suffering from it. Many people definitely need to be educated more about it because it is so desperately important, and people are only now finding their voice in that regard.

and Angelic, in response to your questions about "How much is too much help?" and the like, it's a very tough distinction to make. Of course it is very important to support your friends if they are going through a hard time. People need support and compassion to get through things like depression and low self-esteem, especially in the young adult ages. It is good to communicate with friends suffering from such things and allowing them to vent their frustrations and worries with someone who cares and won't judge them too harshly. That being said, if you feel that your friend, or anyone, might be struggling with mental illness, it's best to suggest to them that they should seek counseling of some kind. There's only so much any layman can do for someone dealing with depression or any ailment of the mind. It can also be hard not to want to always be on said friends side and sugar coat things, but you really have to be able to tell people things like they are. Gentleness mixed with frankness is kind of key when helping people with problems like this, and it's good to know for yourself when you've hit a point where you can't help this person with everything. They cannot rely entirely on you for all their support, and sometimes you have to let yourself know that you come first in your own life. It's not selfishness, it's just the way it is sometimes.

All in all it's good to support your friends, but it's also good to know that you can't handle everything, and suggesting that friends try to get help for your problems works much better than attempting to coddle and reinforce destructive behavior, if such behavior is present.

Sigh, I've suggested that they go to a counselor at school, or even a therapist, but they claim that their problems would "make them go insane".

And I understand completely about the misconceptions of mental illnesses, Vax. I used to have a friend that would use his ADD or ADHD as an excuse a lot. Even throwing their pills away right infront of me just to prove some sort of point that they could be better without them. I also like what you said about how I should come first in my life. I don't really do that, I think.

I think I have a better idea about a middle ground I should have with helping my friend, thanks you guys.

Now, I don't know your friends, nor do I intend to claim any proficient knowledge/experience in psychology and disorders, but that part right there just screams "Fifteen Year Old Special Snowflake" to me. I recognize that this might conflict with what Vax and Wry were trying to get across, but honestly, if they won't take your advice for a therapist or even a school counselor, then logically, one of two things is going on:

1: It's an act and they don't want to get called out because then that would cut off the attention that they crave.
2: They legitimately don't have the confidence to talk to someone they don't know, in which case you really aren't qualified to help them beyond a hug and just, "It'll get better. Let's go hang out and do something." If that's the case and you are legitimately worried about them, maybe talk to their parents? It's a good way to notify someone who actually sees them enough to observe that sort of thing, but can actually exercise authority over them. (If you're concerned about the friend feeling like you "tattled" on them, then this is also a good person to tell, because parents are always gettin' all up in their teenagers' business anyway.)

I have to agree with riku. If they're really saying that their psychological problems would drive someone specifically trained to deal with psychological problems "insane", then it sounds more like they don't really want to be helped with their issues.

Especially when that psychological problem is "depression", aka the most common psychological problem in any given first world country.

EDIT: actually, there is a way to test this. The next time your friend brings it up, try comforting them by saying something along the lines of "this is a common problem that you can get help with relatively easily". Any normal person with the problem will be comforted by it because it'll tell them that they're not abnormal for having it. If it angers them, then it's most likely just "15 year old special snowflake syndrome".

Unfortunately, a lot of people are uncomfortable with professional counseling, ranging from "this is someone I don't know that thinks they know me" to "what if they say I have no problem? Why can't I be like other people then?". Usually these fears are unfounded, but they're deep-rooted.

Also, keep in mind, this perception of mental health is often perpetrated by parental figures, who think this is for people who are "really crazy". Unfortunately, a lot of people hit an unmovable wall when it comes to trying to get professional help because their parents are skeptical, or worse, outright deny a problem even if it's obvious because they don't want a "crazy" in the family.

Society has a lot of growing up to do in this aspect.