AWKWARD ZOMBIE

I'd also like to add that secondhand smoke doesn't just dissipate like you say, Syobon. Smokers tend to gather around entrances to places where you aren't allowed to smoke indoors (malls, movie theaters, etcetera). The smoke tends to linger around those areas for some time. It does dissipate, but as I said, it takes time. Furthermore, If anybody with a major breathing disorder (more severer asthmas, and the like) tries to pass by these areas, it can take a serious toll on them, even if they're only there for a few seconds.

Also, as someone who lives a few miles from an iron mill, I can attest that you can still really tell when there is tobacco smoke in the air. It isn't something that travels miles, but air quality really drops where tobacco is.

Have you guys ever seen a car exhaust?

Car exhaust doesn't cause cancer, heart attacks, bad hair, teeth, tongue, taste, and skin, or incur 193 billion in expenses annually in the US alone due to negative health effects. It is bad, yes, but it's not comparable on any level because they are entirely different substances that do different things for different reasons. As a comparison, it's like saying "so what if I eat a pound of shoe polish a day? have you SEEN how hot dogs are made?"

http://www.nutramed.com/environment/carschemicals.htm


Impossible to determine for exhaust fumes since the exposure is so universal, plus that number doesn't pertain second hand smoking only, which is what my post was about.

Furthermore, if you have a car that doesn't filter the air that comes into your car, exhaust is pretty gnarly. Otherwise, you're probably not going to breathe it in because you'd have to be close to the source and outside of a car, so unless you're walking down the freeway, you're not likely going to inhale much of any concentrated amount of exhaust.

Just the smell of cigarette smoke can linger, especially on days when it isn't windy, and when it is, it permeates the area further, though is much less concentrated. Anyone who has ever done a diffusion test (do a single measured spray of something like lysol or perfume. Even the smallest amount you can physically release will be detectable across the room by smell after it diffuses through the room) knows that it doesn't take much of a "smelly substance" to be able to detect it across the room. Cigarette smoke is no different.

Furthermore, I can tell when I'm near smokers in class because I can generally smell it on their clothes. Last semester I sat next to a smoker in History and every day he was there (about half of the class days, thankfully for me), I'd get a minor headache and have to drink plenty of water to get rid of it (as I do when any strong odor hits me).

So car exhaust isn't really comparable to cigarette smoke, because generally, you're not in a position to experience it (smokers are on sidewalks where you're walking. Car exhaust is in the road where you shouldn't be walking), the person making the exhaust with their car isn't going to stink of exhaust when they walk around, and depending on the person, they might be more sensitive to cigarette smoke than car exhaust, or vice versa.

The smell doesn't necessarily correlate with harmfulness, our noses are decently sensitive and will pick up even negligible concentrations. Especially if you're that peeved upon smelling it. Exhaust fumes on the other hand, you're probably so used to that it's reduced to background 'noise'.

Okay, but here's the thing. Smoking is completely optional and totally unnecessary. It offers zero positive effects to users or people nearby except a small "hit" for the user that fades quickly. No one HAS to smoke tobacco for any reason at all. There are zero benefits.

Cars, on the other hand, are a device our world relies on to function. Food, water, people, goods, everything is transported by car or other motor vehicle anymore. Should they function better? Yes. We've had the technology for decades already to make cars that don't fuck over the environment. But as far as claiming it's unfair that people object to having trafficked areas and public places polluted with carcinogenic smoke, while cars are unfairly "dismissed as background noise"? That's silly. Cigarettes are entirely optional, useless, and exclusively harmful. Cars are completely and utterly vital to modern life; without them, people couldn't get to jobs, things would go undone, food would rot where it's harvested and so on.

Cigarettes are pretty much just a hit, yeah, but tobacco products in general? Comparing a cigarette to a world class cigar is like comparing a bottle of Dom to a two dollar bag of cooking wine. To say that it has "zero benefit, useless, no reason at all" or whatever else is exactly the same thing you could say about drinking, or confectionery, or anything else people do for pleasure.

I'm not comparing them in terms of severity, obviously having a smoke is much more detrimental than a pack of skittles, but saying there's no reason at all for anybody to smoke is a pretty hypocritical statement if you've ever done anything purely for recreation.

To be fair, you normally don't inhale the smoke from a cigar as much as you would a cig.

Yeah, but you're still in trouble with mouth cancer and a bunch of other crap. They don't have any of the preservatives or additives that cigarettes do, but the huge boom of everything else is concentrated enough that they're likewise pretty terrible for you.

No one has mentioned the fact that world is (reluctantly) trying to solve the issue of "car exhaust" anyway?

Alcohol has been proven many times to offer health benefits in moderation; it encourages a healthier heart and circulatory system and has other health benefits when used properly. Tobacco has no beneficial health effects.

All tobacco products cause cancer, heart and artery problems, etc. over time. Spoony, I get that you're an occasional smoker (from what I gather anyway) and you feel defensive, but your classy habit is absolutely NOT healthier, safer or more lastingly pleasurable than other forms of tobacco intake.

"Like other forms of tobacco use, cigar smoking poses a significant health risk. Risks are greater for those who inhale more when they smoke, smoke more cigars, or smoke them longer. The risk of dying from any cause is significantly greater for cigar smokers, with the risk particularly higher for smokers less than 65 years old, and with risk for moderate and deep inhalers reaching levels similar to cigarette smokers. Although it has been claimed that people who smoke few cigars have no increased risk, a more accurate statement is that their risks are proportionate to their exposure. Health risks are similar to cigarette smoking in nicotine addiction, periodontal health, tooth loss, and many types of cancer, including cancers of the mouth, throat, and esophagus. Many of these cancers have extremely low cure rates. Cigar smoking also increases the risk of lung and heart diseases such as chronic obstructive pulmonary disease."

Yes, it's true that it's got a use as a recreational item-- but it's also extremely dangerous in a way most people vastly underestimate until there is no way to repair the damage. There are plenty of recreational hobbies that offer few or no risks and many benefits, things that build good habits, are less harmful to the user and people around them, and don't support an industry that harms absolutely everyone but the tobacco investors themselves. Here's another thing-- if I have a beer, some wine, or whatever, even in excess, as occasionally as some people smoke cigars, by the time I do it again the negative effects of last time will be entirely gone. There is no permanent buildup. That's not so with cigars; it stays and the next time you smoke, a new layer is added onto the old one. Many animals consume alcohol on purpose and our livers and kidneys are designed to handle alcohols whenever we may happen to consume them. The lungs are not designed to filter out, defend against, or even really respond to aspirated smoke, especially when inhaled deeply and on purpose.

EDIT: That said, I'm not DEMANDING that everyone stop. I wish they would, for their own sake, but I can't and won't make them. I can only show people the facts and try to be sure they know the risks. On the other hand, I absolutely do demand that if people insist in indulging in that particular habit, they do it nowhere near me and others. It's my town/street/park/shopping mall/wherever, too. If you want to go to a smoker's bar or a casino, cool; I know them's your digs and will just not go there. Ditto, your home is obviously your own business! But it's not fair to demand that I "deal with it" and allow myself to be exposed to something that is actively harmful to me because it's too inconvenient to move to a designated area, or control yourself long enough to wait until you're not going to hurt someone else. Even if it wasn't harmful, it's unpleasant. I know it's kind of dumb but that sign that says "when I pass gas, I look behind me to see who I farted on. but when I smoke, I don't bother" sign that goes around kind of has a point.

Well, yeah, I'm pretty comfortable with the idea that it's bad for you man, I don't recall saying anything to the contrary.

My point was more, people smoke because they like it. It's something they do because they enjoy it. Different tobaccos can taste different, you can get interesting and complicated flavours on the palate much like fine wines, and the armoas produced can be quite enjoyable as well depending on what you're smoking.

Again, yeah, it's awful for your system; I don't think anybody's out there under the impression that it makes you live longer. But it's something that you can take pleasure in. It isn't always a disgusting compulsion that people need to do to get through the day.

Yeah. Sorry for accidentally another debate again whoops. Anyway, I wanna clarify that on that last note about smoking in public/secondhand smoke issues, I meant "you" like a figurative "you," rather than anyone specific! I don't think anyone on this forum is like "YEAH WELL GUESS WHAT SMOKE RINGS I'M SUCH A COOL REBEL" or something, it's just that the secondhand smoke etc. thing also came up at some point.

No, that's true there man, second hand smoke is pretty stupid. I find most cigarette smokers fairly retarded myself, really. I don't know why smoking something means you have to blow shit in peoples' faces. I mean, if I'm sitting down for a coffee with a friend or something and there's an outside table, sure I might pull the pipe out for a quick puff, or if I'm going for a stroll through the park or wherever, but if you're somewhere that it's going to bother a whole lot of people then I mean, that's just basic manners, you're bein pretty daisies rude.